Author Topic: Too many choices?!  (Read 1227 times)

UncleNeil

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Too many choices?!
« on: September 10, 2006, 09:50:24 pm »
Used to be you stuck to a brand and then chose between SL or GS. I almost miss those days.

Me: 52, 5'10'',200 lbs.,skiing a long time, live out east (Quebec), ski allot, quite stong, always learning,stilla little mired in old school feet together.

Obviously ice is a major part of my skiing but spending as much time in the trees as I can. Most common conditions: fairly big bumps (yes in the trees) consisting of soft tops with icey troughs.

Skis I own: AllStars (168) great on icey steep groomers but difficult the bumps. Recons (174) not lively/nimble enough in the bumps, slide around in those icey spaces between bumps. They are good in powder (here that means 6 to 16 inches) and cut up snow I must say.

So neither is great in my mustcommonly encountered consition.

Considering: AMC 76,HeadIM72, Stockli Rotor,and 07 Dynastar Contact 11 or maybe a narrower ski and keep my Recons or something similar. Then the choices realy get dizzying!

HELP!

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Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 08:16:10 am »
Hey Uncle Neil....was up in your neck of the world...Mount Sainte Ann 2 seasons ago and got a flavor for the conditions  you stated. Much the same here in western NY.

Last year while at a one day bump clinic in Aspen, we had 2-3 feet of snow to ski in. The instructor, John Clendenin shows up on a pair of Head IM 72's and told me how much he loves those skis for all his front side skiing. Now it is Aspen and the closed thing they get to blue ice is hard pack....but, for everthing else, he was big on the Head 72's. John also owns a ski shop and could have his choice of all mountain skis to ride. We did drills on some groomed trails and rock and rolled in deep soft snow bumps.

He felt the Head IM 72 was the most versatile ski he had ridden to date.

Best,
Gary

nevils

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 11:49:39 am »
Last season after much research and demoing several skis i bought the iM72 170cm. It was the best and right decision. I absolutely like these skis very much. I am 5'10" 165lbs. I also demoed the RX8 and thought it to be excellent for East coast skiing, but felt the iM72 to be slightly more forgiving. I am in the "young at heart category" type skier and have been at it (skiing) for more years than i want to admit. Mostly skiing in California and mostly at "Heavenly". This latest trend of fatter and fatter skis is not for me. I would strongly recommend demoing both skis. The RX8 06/07 model looks even better than the 05/06. Look at Peter's ratings.
Nevils   

Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2006, 01:06:53 pm »
This is definitely a demo case.  the 72's are great skis but I found them too soft and not enough energy. They are not nearly as good on icy hardpack as the RX 8's are going to be. That's the one ski that came to my mind. If you find the RX8 demanding, then I woud look at two good but easier skis, the RX6 and the Head 800.

Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2006, 01:32:15 pm »
Hey guys, Uncle Neil has the Allstars for the ice...

I think he's looking for that perfect east coast 2nd quivver ski. One of the reasons I went right to the IM72 is because it would allow Uncle Neil to play in the bumps till his heart content and still give him soft snow float!

Still as Ron stated, demo would be important if you can.

Gary

UncleNeil

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2006, 01:45:37 pm »
Interesting Responses! The RX8 is the ski I was going to buy last year but was convinced to go with the AllStar. Great hard snow ski but, for me at least, difficult in bumps. I would realy like to know why this years RX8 has lost it's rating as being good or OK in bumps, especialy given its improved scores in other areas including forgiveness.

I would like to consider something a little wider for my ventures into the trees. It seems reasonable that the RX8 would be better on realy hard snow than the Head IM72 but what about the Fischer AMC73 or 76.

Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2006, 02:40:55 pm »
Well UncleNeil....I ski the RX8, last years model and it's my go to ski for everything up to boot high snow. Above that, I'm on the Head IM 82.

I love the versatility of the RX8 for hard pack, ice, groomers, soft snow and even in the bumps.

Last year I had the IM77's as my 2nd quivver ski and wanted more float for deeper snow as well as a bit more kickapoo juice from the ski. So, I just went to the IM 82.

BTW>.>>I'm 5'81/2 and 155 lbs....

I also wanted enough difference between my go to ski and my deeper snow/crud ski just for better coverage for varied snow condtions. I'm out west at least twice a year although we've been fortunate here once in a while to get 18" or so.

I'm now wondering at your weight if you should be cosidering the IM 82 or maybe better yet the IM88.

More fuel for the fire!

Gary

nevils

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2006, 02:49:01 pm »
Uncle Niel, please also see my post in Ski Reviews for Fischer - it really should have been placed under Open Discussion on Gear.
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jim-ratliff

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Re: Too many choices?! No such thing.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2006, 07:36:47 pm »
Uncle Neil:

Here's my list of skis that appear to retain pretty good carving capabilities but with a little more waist width (72-76mm), but still a little less demanding than the AllStar.? Some were on your list, others selected from the reviews.? Copied text is from the reviews.? If you go the narrower route, then I would agree with the RX8 (also Head supershape and a couple of others).? The AllStar is a pretty demainding ski, the Recon doesn't sound like a good fit for where you use it.

Head iM72:?  Head mints yet another potential classic. The 72 blends the best of the 70 and the 75 and adds a new feeling of responsiveness and agility. This is a superb ski for almost anything except out-and-out bottomless powder or 40mph back-country blasting.

Dynastar Contact 11:? It was difficult to decide in which group to place this ski. Although, like all Contacts, it has grown at the waist, our testers found that it has lost little of its carving prowess. The added width increases serviceability in loose snow; another 1SQ Ski of the Year contender. Wider ability range than the older one. And, in one word, "smooth."

Elan Magfire 12/10:? "Elan has another winner!" raved one tester, summing up the bulk of comment from our high end skiers. This all mountain super-tool is adept both on and off piste and can even negotiate moderate moguls beneath skilled feet, but "skilled" is the key word.

Salomon X-Wing Tornado:? And now, the good stuff . . . although one interesting side effect of Salomon's increased use of wood cores?which damps the ski?is that some hard-core fans of the older, scalpel-like feel were less enthusiastic about the new line than skiers who have in the past preferred other brands, like K2 and the Austrian skis. For many, it's time to have another look at Salomon. This is the most versatile X-wing for good skiers who mostly ski the groomed. Good technical trainer.

Stockli Rotor:? Let's cut right to the chase: this ski is a serious contender for 1-Ski-Quiver ski of the year. Exceptionally smooth, quick, stable, versatile, although bumps can be tricky as can hard-snow steeps (modified twin). Assumes strong skills, although OK with traditional technique.



« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 07:38:23 pm by jim-ratliff »
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UncleNeil

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2006, 08:38:28 pm »
Can anyone elaborate on the differences between last years RX8 and the new '07?


Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2006, 08:38:35 am »
Well, while your at it, add in Nordica Hot Rods or Top Fuels from Nordica. I do like Jims list sans the Sali's.? jsut not a big sali fan.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 09:11:33 am by Ron »

jim-ratliff

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2006, 10:28:52 pm »
Ron:

I would have agreed with you about the Salomon feel in the past, but it seems that the purchase by Atomic has led to some of the Austrian feel being infused into at least some of the Salomons.  I think Ski liked the tornado as well (which means a lot less than Peter's assessment).  But it's a valid point, demo - demo - demo.

By the way, I always wondered if there wasn't a story behind the story as far as Gary picking on your EXTENSIVE fashion attire.  Now it comes out, it must be "ski angulation envy."

Jim
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Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2006, 08:58:16 am »
Jim, please read my retraction over on the "perfect socks" string, I was wrong, 12" not 3". I don't want to be a poser. i spoke to a friend after that whole string and I trust his assessment. Sorry!

UncleNeil

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2006, 04:40:38 pm »
I would still like to know more about the differences between last year's RX8 and the new 07 model. Why is it rated as more forgiving for example, while the rating for bumps has dissapeared?

jim-ratliff

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2006, 06:23:13 pm »
I would still like to know more about the differences between last year's RX8 and the new 07 model. Why is it rated as more forgiving for example, while the rating for bumps has dissapeared?

Can't answer the question directly, but there are/have been differences year to year in the past seemingly because of fewer (or many more) people testing the ski and/or skiing it in a different length.  In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if far fewer people tested the RX8 this year just because it was a pretty known quantity and wasn't pushed by the manufacturer as having changes.  The reviews do a good job (far better than SKI and SKIING) of generally describing skis, and are pretty consistent relative to each other.  However, the reviews always (and especially this year) attempt to let the readers know what's going on with new/changed skis.

For example, there are many on the forum that rave (rightfully) about the Head SuperShape, but they are all somewhat better skiers than me (and I also want a ski that allows me readily ski with grandkids on blue slopes) so I am VERY happy with my Head i.SL Chips.  I could ski the SuperShape, but it isn't as good a match for my skiing.  Same discussion for my Head iM77's while every else is on to the iM82/88.

Even last year's review of the RX8, which did have the bumps icon says only that it can "handle moderate bumps."  That may not be an endorsement of the type of large off-piste bumps that you want to gravitate to.  On the other hand, a better bump ski may not have the edge grip to deal with the 'firm surface' in your area.

I know, not much help!!!
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2006, 07:05:27 am »
Well Said Jim! 

It's a matter of
Ability- your true skill level
terrain- not just where you ski but what kind of runs, expert, intermediate, bumps, groomers, trees, etc
Snow type- east coast boiler plate, western powder or groomed soft snow, crud, broken, etc.
skier type (aggressive level 7 or cruiser level 7)

This years 8 will be a great ski just as last years 8's were. You will see the opinions differ as the skiers with differing skiing profies (see above) differs.  gary and I ski very similar conditions, he's a better skier but we both appreciate the same kind of ski.

Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2006, 08:47:15 am »
Oh Ron....blush, blush...you much too kind....

Jim, your points and Ron's response are right on. What is also intersting and something we've seen over and over is that for the same skier and the same ski...a 160 will ski quite differently than the 170 length and one certainly may be more versatile than the other.

For example, when I purchase my 06 RX8, I really struggled with should I get the 165 length or go to the 170. Now standard wisdom given my height and weight would have put me in the 165 length. Given my ski ability, what I use the ski for and where I ski, the 170 gave me I believe a more versatile ski.

Having said that, for a person that's just learning to ski or someone that looks to stay on the groomed trails, the shorter ski would have been the right choice.

One of the things I love about this site is that anyone no matter what ski skill level can get such real and experienced information. There are so many options out there when it comes to finding the right ski and those babies are expensive.

Being honest with your true ski ability, where you ski, and the terrain you prefer to ski...is key to an enjoyable ski experience.

Nice job guys!

Gary

jbotti

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2006, 08:48:02 am »
UncleNeil, the big advertised difference between this years RX 8 and last years was that the '07 version is supposed to be a sandwich contsruction ski. This is the way they build race skis, and this approach produces skis with superior edge hold. In my experience, SW construction skis like to skid less and are often times somewhat less forgiving, but they are like rails when you put them on edge.

Now for the true confusion this year. I just read on Epic that some people had just seen the new RX 8's and they were not SW construction. The Fischer website says that they are, so I have no idea what has ocurred or if what is being said on Epic is true (although there would be no reason for anyone to fabricate something like this).

If in fact they are SW skis, I can see why the mogul icon was removed. Many skiers tend to slide/skid in the moguls for speed control and SW skis tend to not like doing this. As well, if you slam a SW ski, head on into a mogul and it bends you can damage the ski permanently and this is not the case with a cap construction ski.

This is what I know right now. Maybe more explanation will be forthcoming over the next few weeks. JB.

Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2006, 09:12:26 am »
Hmmmm,? not sure I agree with slamming my sandwich into a mogul resulting in a damaged sandwich...

For example the IM82 is a sandwich construction and no one I know has reported damaging their sandwich this past season.

Still I do agree with some concepts of your comments...the sandwich constrution MAY provide a more rails to the snow. Since I ski the 2006 RX8...it's hard for me to believe that the edge hold could be any better but it could be.

What I do believe is that the sandwich design WILL give it more kick a poo, more lively, maybe less damp.

For me, I'd certainly have to demo that ski if I was thinking of purchasing cause I would want to make sure it was at least provide me with the same performance I've become used too with the current RX8.

It will be interesting to hear from others as they give the new RX8 a ride. For those with their mind set on owning an? RX8, if you can buy a 2006 model? right...you won't be disappointed...very versatile ski, great edge hold, will accomodate a broad section of skier skills.

Gary

Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2006, 09:57:08 am »
I think that Fischer would have been better off if they remamed the 8, the SW construction really makes it a different ski and the customers are really confused now. (including myself)

UncleNeil

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2006, 02:45:30 pm »
Am I correct in saying that the 05 and 06 RX8s are identical other than graphics? If so I can get a ridiculous deal on 05's in a 170. If they are the same I will pull the trigger on those and then we can start a whole new discussion on which wider ski I buy for those glorious days when it actually snows around here.

Gary

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2006, 04:35:58 pm »
Well Uncle Neil...if you look at Peters review for the 04-05 and then the 05-06...they're pretty dawgone the same ski!!

Same numerical rating,....same terrain rating...and if you can buy them right...pull zee trigger. No regrets mon ami!

With where you ski, the conditions you ski....I think you've got a winner.

I'm assumming the 04-05 comes with the railflex binding. I ski the 170 length with the binding in the forward position. I think if you get the ski and it has the railflex, start it in the center position and then experiment to see where you like the performance better.

Let us know what you decide....

Au voir!

Gary


jbotti

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2006, 07:45:51 pm »
Not that I want to pour cold water on this, but according to the Fischer website, they are supposed to be very different skis, that is the 05-06 vs 06-07. The 04-05 and the 05-06 are identical skis excpet for the graphics.

Again if the 06-07 ski is sandwich construction it will have a different feel than last years. Having said this, last years RX 8 is a great ski and you can't go wrong with it. Ski depot is selling them with railflex bindings cheap ($479)

http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=fischerrx82006&Category_Code=fischerrx2006&Product_Count=1

Ron

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Re: Too many choices?!
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2006, 07:26:18 am »
OK, newest posting over at epic are that according to eye witness's, the new 8 is not SW but still Capped. I am thinking it's some kind of SW with a cap- new kin dof top sheet?   Can anyone here get to a shop that has them to snap a picture and post?