Author Topic: Bought first new gear of the season  (Read 1533 times)

Ron

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Bought first new gear of the season
« on: June 22, 2006, 05:32:00 am »
Although mentally, my seson never ends, I did pick up a Spyder warmup race jacket this week, ITs the black quilted jacket with a hood.  Couldn't resist, snowshack had them on sale 40% off!  Anyone else keeping their habits alive?

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Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2006, 05:56:03 pm »
My search for a wide ski has been truly frustrating. I failed to pull the trigger on a pair of new Head Monster iM 77 (flat version) for $225. THAT WAS I THINKING!

Then I passed on a pair of new Volkl AC4 with used Look bindings for $318. D'OE!

Now I'm consodering a pair of Gotoma's for $500 :o. As the models get fatter, the price keeps going up!

I should go back to buying skinny skis at low prices.

Cheers,

Michael

jim-ratliff

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Just be patient
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2006, 11:22:41 am »
Michael:

You're just early in the game.? For most people, skiing is very seasonal.? Wait until SKI comes out with next years 'skis of the year'.? There will be plenty of people that just HAVE to have the latest and the greatest, and then you can really look for your type of value (good skis at great prices).

And, really, does the world end if you have to ski next year on what you have right now?? I don't think so.? ? :)
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2006, 12:55:23 pm »
Skiing is seasonal, my mental season is basically 11 1/2 months long. There is no bad time to buy ski gear except for November, and that's only because they don't discount enough!  That said, Michael, go for the 82's bud, 82's!!!!!!

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2006, 07:10:58 pm »
Hi Jim & Ron,

Well I'm stymied. I have been unable to decide on a wide ski for western skiing. I understand that a 95mm or wider ski will be needed to float my over-sized carcass. I also refuse to smeer or feather-edge a turn unless I need to dump speed immediately or its the end of the run. Can a big ski carve? No, and I know the question misses the point. Big skis are meant to be skied like a snowboard in soft snow. A ski floating in powder forms a shelf of snow underfoot, and the skier surfs the fluid powder. Turns are the product of ski flex, not sidecut. OK, I get it! :-[

But what about those hours or sometimes days when no new snow exists? I am I supposed to slide around like an unschooled intermediate and never carve a turn again?? :'(

And I'm undecided If I should own an all-mountain midfat and rent a wide ski on powder days or own a wide ski and rent a carver on hard snow days? >:(

I'm going back to Vermont where I don't have these problems. ;)

Cheers,

Michael


Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 01:27:43 pm »
Old beat up subject but why do you think you must have 95mm underfoot?

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 07:40:30 am »
Old beat up subject but why do you think you must have 95mm underfoot?

Hi Ron,

Well, the conflict I have comes down to theory verses experience. Here is the theory: If the skier is above 180 Lbs, he will need more than 88 mm underfoot to float in soft snow, including crud. This implies that the midfat ski will not perform as intended in the kind of off-piste conditions found above 8000 ft.

Also, the midfat is not providing the quickness or edge-grip of a recreational ski-cross or race model on hard snow. Wider skis loses responsiveness on hard snow.

So, the midfat can be criticized for being neither ?fish nor fowl?, so to speak.

However, I have skied powder on a variety of narrow and midfat skis with very good results. I even consider my old Salomon Supermountains (110-78-100mm) to be a great powder/crud/bump ski that can carve long turns easily. When I tested the AC4 & Monster iM88 & iM77 last year at Alta, they all were great fun.

So my personal experience conflicts with theory.

Given my size, I may need a 3 ski quiver. I would travel with 2 pair out east (Fischer WC RC & Dynastar Intuitive 74) and two pair out west (Intuitive 74 & some 95mm plus fatty).

It all seems a little excessive!

Cheers,

Michael

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 01:04:14 pm »
Excessive, NO WAY! Sounds like a solid plan. You expect a different answer from me or Gary???

FYI- I have the same buying habits with Shotguns this year! Just bought a beautiful Caesar Guerini 12 guage. Absolutely a sweet gun. Sporting Clay is my off season habit.

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 01:11:16 pm »
Excessive, NO WAY! Sounds like a solid plan. You expect a different answer from me or Gary???

FYI- I have the same buying habits with Shotguns this year! Just bought a beautiful Caesar Guerini 12 guage. Absolutely a sweet gun. Sporting Clay is my off season habit.

I had a great time shooting clay at the National Shooting Complex in San Antonio! I was given the choice of golf clubs or Shotguns during a business event. Most fun I've had in a long time, and clearly better than golf!

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2006, 07:15:06 am »
Highly addictive sport, Sporting Clays! I shoot twice a week now. Totally mental game and you get to shoot stuff and watch it explode. Much more fun than golf but the guns can get very expensive. If you think a pair of skis is steep, try a good quality 12 gauge over/under!

Gary

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weighing in here......
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2006, 09:51:14 am »
Ok you cowboys....leave the poor pigeons alone for a minute..


Michael, really not sure why you need the 3rd ski, well maybe to support our economy, to have more stuff at home, to expermemt with a new carry system for 3 skis...keep up with your wifes shoe collection...

If you have a good not so serious race capable ski or skis....and a pair of 88's or B3's or B4's.....what else do ya need.

3  years ago I skied boot to knee high powder on a pair of Head 163 Im 75 chips...this past year I bought and skied in simiilar conditions the IM77's. Now, I'm prettys sure I'm trading those for the 88's just because I'm finding more opportunities to ski deeper snow (I hope) and  my experieince in the glacier at BC this year tells me, wider would be nicer.

I know width is a factor somewhat related to the skis waist but a persons height, skiing ability and preferred terrain are important as well.

I've skied my RX8's in boot high powder in a 170 length and they were smooth and very responsive. At 5'9 153 lbs...I was amazed how well they performed. At your weight, maybe going longer like the 175 or 180. Still think if you like skiing broken snow, crud and powder, the RX8's might be a better choice.

Not sure I would agree with you about the 180lb skier and going wider than 88mm. In the glacier, our guide had the B4 in a 195 length. He was 5'10, 175lbs. He asked if I wanted to try his skis, I said sure. He got on my 170, Im77chips and me on his big ole fat boards. I skied behind him and I noticed he was more active with his body but virtually had no problem skiing. Me on his, well, those babies love staying on top...nice skis. Convinced me I wanted the 88's. I think there are factors that should be used as a guide, but think about it , many years ago when skis were 210's, skiinng waist, they skied powder with those bad boys. It was the length that helped keep the ski tips on top.

Now having 3 pairs of skis is very cool, but hey, lugging those babies around all the time...? Besides, Ron might me looking to sell you one of his shotguns.

Best,
GC


Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2006, 10:56:19 am »
Hmm, I am selling my beretta silver pigeon II 20 guage... But I'll never sell the Guerini!

OK, ski's. I skied last season on my supershapes in 8" and they were great. No problems at all. I also skied on the Nordica tops 74mm waisted skis in about a foot with no problems, I'm 6' and 170-175 (depending on wine and how good the food is) I can't imagine that my 82's in 170 aren't going to give me enough float in pow up to 2'. I think an overlooked factor is the tip and tail. Looking at these ski's it's interesting to note that all are relatively equal in tip and tail dims. Eve Haraold Harb skis the SS's in boot high powder with ease.

look at some dims:
Supershapes @ 170 : 121-66-107
Head 77's  @ 170    : 119-77-104
Head 82's @172      : 122-82-108
Head 88's @ 175     : 126-88-112

Barrettscv

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Re: weighing in here......
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2006, 01:42:42 pm »
Ok you cowboys....leave the poor pigeons alone for a minute..


Michael, really not sure why you need the 3rd ski, well maybe to support our economy, to have more stuff at home, to expermemt with a new carry system for 3 skis...keep up with your wifes shoe collection...

I know width is a factor somewhat related to the skis waist but a persons height, skiing ability and preferred terrain are important as well...

...I've skied my RX8's in boot high powder in a 170 length and they were smooth and very responsive. At 5'9 153 lbs...I was amazed how well they performed. At your weight, maybe going longer like the 175 or 180. Still think if you like skiing broken snow, crud and powder, the RX8's might be a better choice.

Best,
GC

Hi Gary,

Many normal sized guys can use a two pair quiver and cover all conditions much easier than an over sized guy like myself. I really like your RX8/Monster 77 combo, one versatile carver and one versatile midfat. At your size a 77mm wide ski will take you into truly deep powder with more float than an Volkl Gotama will give me at 220 Lbs. Also, your 170 RX8 probably provides as much in the way of carving thrills as my 175cm Worldcup RC and is much more versatile in crud and softer snow.

My current Worldcup RC & Intuitive 74 quiver is perfect for Vermont. The wall to wall ice that is common in Vermont is a joy on the RC and softer/warmer conditions are easily handled by the Intuitive 74.

However, the snow above 8000 ft is really too soft for the RC. It's like using a Velodrome fixed wheel bicycle for light off-road use, doable but not great. The RX9 is perfect for variable groomed snow carving with a little crud thrown in. Its more stable and less demanding than the RX8. The Intuitive 74 does not float well enough for truly deep snow and is not really a responsive enough to be used as a hyper-carving ski. If I can find a AC4 or Monster 82 at a good price I will probably bring one of these to Colorado in December. I might just pop for a RX9 and demo a wide ride if conditions dictate. Part of the fun is considering the options!

Cheers,

Michael

Gary

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2006, 07:27:59 am »
Hmmm,...220....yuz? big fella...although a buddy of mine end of last season, 5'10, 240 lbs bought a pair of RX8's and with what he lacks in ski finesse he gains in jumpin all over those skis to make turns. He's happy is a lark...came off a pair of K2 Fours.

Having said that, I was surprised at your thought that the RX9 would be less demanding than the RX8's. I can only reason that you're thinking that at your weight, the RX8's may be too soft for a skillful skier not standing up to the kinds of pressure one can transmit to a board...or is it something else? Peters test state that the RX8 was more manageable.

Having said that, the RX9 might be the ticket for you and only a test drive will tell. What's an interesting sidebar is that when I skied on the guides 195 B4....95 at the waist I think, it really didn't feel like a ski that was longer than my 170, 77 chips. The conditions gave me free rein in the kinds and shapes of turns I wanted to make but they were comfortable. Still, I do find something like the 82's and 88's very appealing. For me, if I'm going bigger and only looking for that 2nd ski, it's got to be the 88. If I can get a deal, I'll be bringing the 88's and for sure the RX8 out with me.

Man, I'm sooooo looking forward to Beaver Creek and the interesting conversations we all will have. Can't wait to turn em!

Michael, our local ski shops are having their pre season ski sales and the big Dome Sale....If you want, I'll check out the prices on some 82's and get back to you...what length? Let me know what you're looking for and I'll find out availability and best pricing.

Best,
Gary

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2006, 07:36:05 am »
Michael, you should try some Nordica's as well. They are fantastic skis. Lots of pop and energy. I have found the snow in the Vail area is perfect for cruising, especially on those 4-6" of fresh powder days. True hero snow. It's soft enough that it won't hold up a narrower ski but not too light to prevent good edge-hold. Once it gets skied and broken up a bit, its still soft enough that even a ski like the 8 or the SS will plow right through it. I skied the Nordica Hot Rod, Modified, 119-74-104 in several days of fresh powder ranging from 2" to 10" and had no issues at all. A friend was skiing Atomic GS 11's and skied it with equal ease. ?I still contend that a wider tip and tail has more effect on float than simply looking at the waist. Length will aslo effect the float. But I digress, One western ski for multipurpose use? Hmm, I would have to go with the head 82 or the Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous http://www.nordica.com/ski/scheda.php?s=3&target=448

I am still bringing out my Supershapes!

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2006, 08:01:37 am »
Hmmm,...220....yuz? big fella...Having said that, I was surprised at your thought that the RX9 would be less demanding than the RX8's. I can only reason that you're thinking that at your weight, the RX8's may be too soft for a skillful skier not standing up to the kinds of pressure one can transmit to a board...or is it something else? Peters test state that the RX8 was more manageable.

... Still, I do find something like the 82's and 88's very appealing. For me, if I'm going bigger and only looking for that 2nd ski, it's got to be the 88. If I can get a deal, I'll be bringing the 88's and for sure the RX8 out with me.

Michael, our local ski shops are having their pre season ski sales and the big Dome Sale....If you want, I'll check out the prices on some 82's and get back to you...what length? Let me know what you're looking for and I'll find out availability and best pricing.

Best,
Gary

Hi Gary,

Yes my "RX9 is more forgiving than an RX8" is a little confusing. At moderate speeds on smooth firm snow the RX8 is better than the RX9, quick and tolerant of pilot errors. The RX9 comes into its own at speed where it is more dependable and a little less twitchy. A little more Audi S4 like and little less Porshe Boxster like. Ultimately the RX8 is more fun than the RX9, but at speed and in chop the RX9 should be more dependable.

I am looking for a Head Monster 82 in a 183cm (?) length. I am also looking for a flat Volkl AC4 in about the same size. If I find these in the $450 price range I'll grab it.

Cheers,

Michael Barrett

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2006, 09:27:32 am »
Michael, Phil Pugliese may be sellin his AC4's, I left him a message

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2006, 12:31:23 pm »
Michael, Phil Pugliese may be sellin his AC4's, I left him a message

I'm hoping to find a seller who has a 184cm AC4 Flat from last year. Often a shop will unload the longer skis during summer just to get rid of them. The 06/07 AC4 is stiffer with a better binding system, but since I want the flat version for soft snow, the 05/06 model is better for me. An new AC4 with look bindings sold for $320 in June, should of jumped on it. I also will consider a Monster 77 flat from last year, one sold for $225 and again I was unwilling to bid properly.

Phil is a skilled seller, his price might be too high for me.

I have found a used Elan 777 with Tyrolia freeflex bindings in a 184cm for $225....

Cheers,

Michael

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2006, 12:57:39 pm »
well, you are correct about Phill but it turns out it was a 724 and he's keeping it. Did you try  Dawgatching? Scott's got killer deals.

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2006, 01:04:06 pm »
well, you are correct about Phill but it turns out it was a 724 and he's keeping it. Did you try? Dawgatching? Scott's got killer deals.


Ive been PM Dawgatching, but I do not get response! Maybe he takes the summer off?!? Can you contact him for me?

Besides the Flat AC4, I will also consider a Monster 82 in the same size.

Cheers,

Michael

jim-ratliff

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Dawgcatching
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 09:08:31 pm »
Michael:

Scott was the same way last year.  I don't know whether he is a racer or not, but seemed like he does a lot of biking in the summer. 

All of his stuff is done through the store he works at, so it may also be related to some restrictions at the store (i.e. it's summer time, focus on bike stuff, there will be time for skis later).

JIm
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Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2006, 08:26:21 am »
Scott is setting up a new e-mail account just for epic and real skier users. He is a bike racer and has been training and racing all summer. He really doesn't monitor his epic account during the summer. He is getting back to it shortly. Here's his number (541) 593-2453  and e-mail for now scott@villagebikeandski.com  he doesn't carry volkl althoug he may be able to later as the seson gets closer. he's out of 82's and has a few 88's in 175 and 186.  he quoted me 439 flat and 160 for FF14 bindings. The flatter Mojo's maybe a better choice for bindings (thanks Gary)

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2006, 11:07:00 am »
Well I haven't found a midfat for me yet, But I pulled the trigger on a pair of 04/05 RX8 160cm flat for my oldest daughter ;D. The skis have never been mounted. A fellow bear purchased them in Europe two years ago and offered them to me for a very good price (which is like waving a red flag before a bull.).? He explained that Fischer offers both a Railflex & a flat versions there, we only get Railflex versions here. I'll sell her Atomic SL 9'16 and she will have something more versatile.

The burning question now is what binding? I'm tempted to remove the dealer installed Railflex plate & bindings from her Big Stix 7.2, or maybe just install a Tyrolia freeflex binding?

What do you guys think?

Cheers

Michael

Ron

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2006, 12:48:09 pm »
Hmm, tough one, I will say this, You did say the word "versitile", so my thought is that the Rf will allow here to shift the binding to adjust for conditions. You can always leave them forward for 90% of skiing, especially if she's aggressive and race/carve oriented but yo can't sfit them to neutral in crud or moderate powder with the FF.  I don't know if she would really be missing anything with the RF over  the FF, Final comment, go for the RF.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2006, 11:01:01 pm »
Don't know how your daughter skis and how the RX8 skis, whether she needs to be forward or not.  If you have the freeflex, check the binding mounting holes.  her foot may be short enough that you can still move her around a little bit (if you want) just by mounting the bindings in a different set of holes in the plate.
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Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2006, 10:29:46 am »
Hi Jim and all,

I'm going with the Railflex, good quality and very adjustable. Plus it's the factory "matched" binding that does deliver good results. This binding is the best all-around choice.

I considered the Free flex with the CP13 or other Tyrolia "race" plate. This would be ideal for me since it should improve grip and responsiveness compared to the Railflex. I would mount it 20mm forward to allow some versatility in binding position.

Maybe if I find a flat RX8 for me...

Cheers,
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 11:47:30 am by Barrettscv »

jim-ratliff

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2006, 01:58:25 pm »

 I would mount it 20mm forward to allow some versatility in binding position.


Michael:? Maybe you already have, but I would do some research before mounting the CP13 20mm forward.? The setup on my i.SL Chips is the CP 13 plate with LD12 bindings.? I asked jbotti to do some research and he asked Harald/Diana and their recommendation was to stay with the default mounting position with the CP13.? After skiing it last year, I would agree, although it's hard for me to know if its the plate or the ski.

I surmise that the CP13 plate does a better job of projecting force forward (especially as the the ski flexes) than the railflex.? With the railflex, the force is just weight pressing down on the rails.? With the CP13, the front plate seems like it might distribute the weight better and the rubber damping bumper under the toe of the plate would compress and increase forward pressure as the ski flexes (sort of like the piston arm on the Marker bindings).

Anyway, Harald/Diana's general recommendation was +15 for railflex and factory mount for the CP13.

By the way, I think the SuperShape comes with the CP13 carve plate as well and I don't hear anyone having problems with the mounting position or any discussion of moving the plate around.? Ron??
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jbotti

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2006, 04:41:11 pm »
Michael and Jim, I beleive what Diana actually said was that they mounted all race and recreational race skis in their factory position. All of these come with the CP 13 carve plate. Pretty much all else coming from Head comes with the railflex binding and with all of these they put them in the 15mm forward position. They did mount my IM 88's with a Mojo 15 binding and this is also in the factory positon (and not forward).

This doesn't really answer the question about mounting an RX 8 with a carve plate. My guess would be that starting it in the factory position would be right, but I know that I don't know the answer. I do think that the forward 15mm position on the railflex and the 13mm rise on the carve plate seem to accomplsih somewhat similar things (in different ways). Just my thoughts. JB.

Barrettscv

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Re: Bought first new gear of the season
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2006, 05:19:58 pm »
Thanks JB & JR,

Installing plates can be tricky.

Cheers,

Michael