Author Topic: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?  (Read 648 times)

Barrettscv

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The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« on: April 21, 2007, 08:18:57 am »
Many contributors here at Realskiers are Head fanatics and are also customers of Scott "Dawgcatching" from Epic. Scott manages the Village ski & bike shop in Sunriver Oregon. I had a business meeting in Central Oregon, so why not pick-up my new Fischer WC SC and do a little skiing at Mt. Bachelor? Scott offered to show me the mountain, how could I refuse that?

I had the pleasure of skiing with Scott yesterday. Conditions at Mt. Bachelor included perfect groomed conditions on the front side and boot-top conditions on the back side. Scott was using his Monster iM 78 and it was an impressive verification of the ski (& skiers) versatility.

Scott was easily hyper-carving on the groomed. I was on my new carving ski, a 165cm 13 meter TR SL cheater ski that is highly regarded as a superb short & medium turn carver ;D. The Monster has a 14 meter TR and was clearly carving the same kind of tight pencil line turns. We ventured to the back side of Mt. Bachelor and found some boot-top deep fresh snow and Scott & his 78's were easily scarving any kind of turn, while I was wishing I was on my other skis. I was forced to lean slightly back to keep my tips from diving, while Scott could stay centered and ski with much less effort in deeper snow.


Scott had used the Supershape as his primary ski this winter; but plans to use the 78 as his anything-up-to-8-inches-deep-ski. He recommended the Supershape Magnum to me (I'm 230 lbs) and said its a very beefy ski, too beefy for lighter skiers. He also likes the Fischer Progressor.

There clearly is an emerging group of 70mm to ??? wide skis that perform as excellent carvers while functioning very well in all conditions less than 8 inches deep. I consider my Dynastar Contact 11 to be one of these, along with the Nordica Speedmachine Mach 3 and others.

My Fischer SC is possibly a member of a dying breed. I intend to use the ski as a coach. These demanding short skis do require the skier to clean carve and stay centered more than all-mountain skis. However, they do not guarantee superior hard snow performance and are difficult to use in softer snow.

For most skiers, why bother with a sub-70mm wide ski, when a wider ski performs just as well?

Cheers,

Michael
« Last Edit: April 21, 2007, 08:29:17 am by Barrettscv »

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jim-ratliff

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2007, 11:24:27 am »

Michael, sounds like you didn't get any time on the iM78's yourself?
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Barrettscv

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2007, 05:10:10 pm »
Hi Jim,

Nope, I did not ski the 78, I would need a 178cm anyway. I did ski a 186cm monster 88 and it was ideal for the heavy fresh snow that fell today.

Michael

Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 06:54:06 am »
Good info Michael and I am happy to see that you are still making some high quality turns there bud.  How's the gear doing for you?  I am curious to hear your impressions of whether the "newer" technology has made a difference overall.

Barrettscv

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 09:19:35 am »
Hi Ron,

How are you feeling? We both will need PT this summer, you for your knee, me for my belly? :D.

Skiing with Scott was great. Mt Bachelor is a unique place. The bottom half reminded me of Vermont, with narrow wooded trails of moderate steepness. The Upper half reminded me of Lake Louise, a tree-less ice & snow covered space that is wonderful on a clear & calm day, but un-ski-able on an all-to-common windy & foggy day. April is the time of year to ski Oregon, according to several locals. The scenery is spectacular, as is the quality of life in Bend. Fun!

The Fischer WC SC provided a familiar blend of Fischer characteristics; quick but stable, like the RX8. The ski is also rewarding of clean carve like the WC RC & Scenio S500. Very response to direction changes if you flex the ski and very punishing of any stance that's off center. I was spooked by the power of the ski for several runs.

I spent the first hour making cautious soft-edge linked turns, the ski will skid turns, but it feels like a Porsche in a parking garage. Then Scott & I went to the back side. Caution was no longer a luxury I could afford. I managed to link most of my turns, but I skied with excess concern about tip dive, which would have put me over the handle-bars in an instant. Skiing in snow that was deep & soft enough that floating was reality is really spooky on a 165cm ski, tremendous work also.

Things got way-better as we skied the Northwest section. These runs are great cruisers and were perfect for high "C" clean carved turns. It was fun keeping pace with Scott, he is a great skier and very good company. I eventually was skiing at my normal pace, but with 50% more turns. The ski coach on my feet were making an positive impact. The WC SC perform very well and are surprising stable for such a short ski. Its number one issue is its potential to auger into moguls, a problem most SL skis share. The Flow-flex plate works very well on on variable surfaces, soaking up the choppy afternoon snow. The ski is a keeper for Vermont conditions and will make my cruising less dependant on speed and more driven by clean carve technique.

It was snowing and sleeting on Saturday. Several inches accumulated, and the surface would constantly vary from corduroy to deep untracked snow to wet & soft moguls. Skiing in my normal speed range was really demanding on the 165cm Fischers. I finally demoed some Monster 88's in a 186cm. (I asked for a 182cm Monster 82, but it was being used). The big monsters were great, carving like a GS ski regardless of the sloppy mess underfoot.

The Contact 11 could have covered all the conditions seen at Mt Bachelor very well. The WC SC is far more race oriented, and a fun & challenging addition to the quiver.

Cheers,

Michael


« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 01:59:47 pm by Barrettscv »

Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 04:43:13 am »
Michael, I have the mojo's and the SS's for Steamboat, given what you have seen with the 78's would you recomend looking at replacing the SS's with 78's or is that too much overlap with the mojo's? I still want that GS, high performance ability for harder snow days but since you really don't get true hard snow out there and those 78's have a 14m radius, I was thinking that may be a good option.  You could still carvea  mean line but then jump into any thing off-piste still around.

Thoughts from my fellow gear-whores?

Barrettscv

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 06:38:00 am »
Hi Ron,

I would not jump at a new model in your case, you can cover all your needs with the SS & Mojo. The Monster 78 would be an ideal one ski quiver for an East coast skier who goes to the Rockies for an annual vacation, or for skiers (like me) who travel and want to carry only one ski.

You have the enviable ability to keep 2 skis at your second home and pull from the ski closet as conditions dictate, you lucky dog!

The truth be told, I could ski everything East or West on my Contact 11's. I'm just a gear-ho who likes something new on a regular basis (skis don't care if your monogamous).

Cheers,

Michael

Michael

Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 06:49:50 am »
thanks my fellow Ho'  :) Yes, go forth and multiply really means go buy more skis and yes, I think that its just fun to buy and try. I can't wait to head back out the Boat in june and its only 8 months till next season. You have no compliants my nomadic friend. I think you beat out cassara for the number of resorts skied in one season.  Good job!!!!

Barrettscv

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 07:31:42 am »
Its been a great year,

Snowbird (X 2), Snowmass, Beaver Creek, Stratton, Mt. Snow, Lake Louise, Sunshine Village, Alta, Mad River Glen & Mt. Bachelor.

The skiing was awesome, but the best part was the friends that I made along the way ;D.

Michael


Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 07:35:15 am »
well said!  Although the phrase, "there are no friends on a powder day" is true, it is also true that skiing alone on a powder day is not nearly as fun ;)

jim-ratliff

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 06:21:59 pm »
Michael, I have the mojo's and the SS's for Steamboat, given what you have seen with the 78's would you recomend looking at replacing the SS's with 78's or is that too much overlap with the mojo's? I still want that GS, high performance ability for harder snow days but since you really don't get true hard snow out there and those 78's have a 14m radius, I was thinking that may be a good option.? You could still carvea? mean line but then jump into any thing off-piste still around.

Thoughts from my fellow gear-whores?

Ron:? My 78's from Dawg came in last week (I got the 177cm length) and I will be bringing them to RealSkiers II and all are welcome to demo.
I fact, even though I don't usually bring two pair, I will probably bring my i.SL Chips to ski the first couple of days and get reacquainted with my feet.

But I agree with Michael, I doubt that replacing the SuperShape with an iM78 makes much sense when you've got such good coverage on both sides of the 78 mm waist. 

"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 07:10:19 am »
Thanks Jim, I am hoping that you never get those SL's out of the condo!  Start praying now for heavy dumpages of that trademarked Champagne(tm) powder. I would love to demo the 78's if nothing else to see how they perform but I will heed the good advice from you both regarding the SS's and the Mojo's. I am already thinking about demoing the new Gotamas. There is such great off-piste terrain up there and nothing beats a nice pair of fatties in the trees and rocks and stuff. They are just so much fun.

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2007, 02:49:45 pm »
Michael...you da man....Nice reports and sounds like you pushed the envelope on skiing so many great resorts. Nice skiing with Scott I'm sure. Anytime you can make turns with someone that knows the mountain...that's perfect!

I think you have a great quivver of skis and now the luxery of a ski caddie would be perfect. Glad you're out there making turns bud.

I agree watching you turn your Contact 11's....they'd be most accommodating anywhere you ski and certainly for most conditions.

Having owned and skied the IM75 and IM77, I'm really interested in skiing the 78 just to see where they fit into the "ski stream" of things. I'll bet they are a great turning ski as well.

YOu know Ron,......maybe you should have a pair of 78's in the closet just to change up the pace. Can we identify another condition that would be between the conditions the SS and the MOJO's are capable of...Hmmmm.....I'm thinking....hmmmm.. ..
more thinking.......got it....

picture this.....you're at XXX Mountain where trails are only cattrack and 1/2 wide, you're at 4500 feet elevatoin where it sleets most of the time with some wet powder for good sakes thrown in...Hmmm, SS, MOJO, or IM78's.....if you said 78's, you win.
For sure, why not have a pair...Ok...I'm busting on ya....still, there are certain conditions a man like yourself, might want to have a different pair of skis to match a new outfit....OK..yep.. ..still busting on ya.

Would like to ski those 78's though just to see how they compare to the 77's which I traded for my 82's, and see how they compare to the 82's. As i understand it, the 78 is a totally new ski all together. Look forward to bumming a ride on them Jim come December.
I think there's going to be a great market for the 78....nice pick Jim!

Best,
Gary


Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 08:29:57 am »
Gar' I didn't think of the outfit implication!  ;D, Yes, ui can see it now,

Its 6Am in Steamboat, the sun is just starting to rise, I have been up for about an hour now since I can't sleep, I am watching the local channel for the weather report. The skies are looking like they are clear and temps are in the low single digits, Hmm, that would be my Orange Jacket with a liner. Probably the white pants but the black ones are a bit warmer, If I go with the black, the Mojos may match better...the white, either the SS's or the Mojo's, What decisions...

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2007, 08:57:42 am »
Ron, you're a complicated man for sure....Still, having a wardrobe to match your skis just might take your focus off of Steamboat sunrises.
YOu know, you could set up each outfit in your special man room at your house, and match up your skis....picture it now....skis, wardrobe carefully placed around the room. Yup...you might just forget about skiing.

NOT!
G

Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2007, 02:11:22 pm »
Its back to basics for me now, Really. I sold almost everything this season. Down to a couple jackets and pants. Back to the 78 though... It really sounds like a new kind of ski. Kinda like Atomic's Metron line greatly improved. Head has really been aggressive with their ski lines and by using the Sandwich construction on wider skis, they have created a whole new concept. I can't wait to demo them. I was interested to see that Al's ski barn (thanks to Gary) was advertising them with Mojo 15's,  I would think that a RF binding would be a much better choice given its front side power and ability. First things first though, I just posted a want-ad for a ski caddy for the RSII ski outing.. ;D

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 02:29:31 pm »
 Hey Jim..I just checked out the 78's at Als Ski Barn...funky cool looking ski and love the dims.

What length did you get and what's the turning radius? What binding is on your new boards?

I was talking to Ron and I think this ski from it's spec's will open up a whole new world of ski stability and versitility for many skiers. Just like the Dynastar Contacts are winning over those Baily drinking speed demons all over the country.
I like the way the ski industry is moving with these super sidecuts.

With the design of this ski, the materials used...I'll bet this will really be able to handle speed and provided great control and stability as well. Kudos Jim for picking a "ripe" cherry off the tree!

Now more seriously, do you have the appropriate ski colors to go with these cool looking skis? All the kids in the park will be chasing you down to check out the new ride.

Man, all the ski chicks will be swamping you in the lift line.....I'm hanging tight to catch your castaways!

Best,
Gary

jim-ratliff

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 05:54:05 pm »
Gary:

I like the graphics better than iM77 as well.? Less like fall leaves and more like the wings of a red eagle on a brown background.

I got the 177 length.? 177 would be my "normal" length for all-mountain, but I went with the 170 iM77 because of Scott's recommendation for that ski.? When his iM78 review said more forgiving than iM82 and less bull-dozer like than the iM77 then I went back to 177 for this one.?

Length: 177
Dim's: 125-78-111
Radius: 15.7
Float Index: 1635

Hand flexing, the iM78 is noticeably less stiff than my i.Sl Chips (165 length) and pretty similar to the iM77.? However, the iM77 always felt like it would flex a little and then really stiffen up.? Only time will tell.

Bindings are the Railflex LD12's that I took off the iM77's (Scott mounted a rail in the deal, so I guess they come flat).

I have colors that mismatch (that's the appropriate computer geek thing to do).? The skis are red on brown, my jacket is blue and pants are black.? My boots do match the bindings (both are two different tones of gray).? +15 is almost exactly BOF/CRS so we will start there.? The binding mount point is slightly more forward than the iM77 (+15 there was still a bit behind BOF/CRS).

I don't think all the "kids in the park" will be a problem.? Since the skis won't be in the park while they are on MY feet the kids in the park will never see them.? And, with the Ron/Michael fashion plates in the lift lines the 'ski chicks' won't be looking at anyone's skis.? ?:o

It is kind of cool being able to see the laminates from the side, with the two layers of Liquid Metal.? I didn't realize it was an entirely new ski; I just assumed it was a narrow version of the 82, that they had so much acceptance of the 88 and then the 82 that they just decided to add another ski to the lineup down in width and up in forgiveness a little bit.? However, now that I think of it one of Scott's other comments was that it was more like a wide SuperShape.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 08:31:39 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2007, 07:09:51 am »
That's a perfect setup. No worries about kids in the park, its definitely not a park ski, way too narrow, Jim, we all joke about the fashion thing, but, not macthing or having all the same or similar colors is the cool thing. So no worries. There is still the "old skier" standby of a TNF black/blue black/red jacket and black pants so don't worry!  The ski is a new type of ski, its dims and performance envelope take the old Metron concept to a new level. This ski builds on the success of the sandwich SS's, 82's and 88's. Its a perfect addition to the lineup for race-bred performance with off-piste performance. If I had to guess, its probably going to be rated next season as the "perfect" one-quiver ski with a slight nod to the groomed. Gary had sent me a blurp on it where was decribed as a "freeski", I don't understand that but I do see it as a super versitile inbounds tool. Yes, I would say that all of the Head sandwich skis are in the same vein but I wouldn't say they are "wide supershapes", each has similar traits but unlike manyother ski manufacturer's, aach has its own purpose and use. Once again, I see Head leading the pack. They now have a great lineup of sandwich skis and a great lineup of cap skis. Sandwich are more on-piste, caps, better for off-piste. Where's the snow?

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2007, 09:14:46 am »
Hmm...I might beg to differ with my collegue Ron...Jims ski in the 177 length with a 78 waist can probably ski up to knee high snow especially when moving that LD12 binding to the rear position to help keep those monster shovels above the snow. Having skied my IM77's in knee high snow, getting some backside or deep skiing should not be too arduous with the 78's unless you're in stuff deeper than the kneecaps.

Whether it's a fat SS...nothing is ever really the exact same for sure, but I'm sure this ski without a doubt will have a nitch as a great one quivver ski like Ron said. The SS loves to be skied from a very centered and powerful stance to make it do your bidding. The binding is not adjustable so working off the factory set sweet spot either works for the skier or not. The 78 design may provide more flexiable ski characteristics which many skiers may look for in that one perfect ski.

Where I found the Im77 not very lively compared to the 82, I think Head wisely introduced more lively into the 78 just by their structural design. Then add the shovel , tail and sidecut...based on my experience with Head, this ski has got to be a great ride.

When I used my 77 as my all day ski, I had the bindings +15..when the snow got deep I went to -15 and found having this flexability with this particular ski was important. Jim, I think you should try the ski at the 3 positions just to get a feel for how it performs so that when conditions warrent, you be in the drivers seat knowing how to max out the skis performance and also find what would be less wear and tear on the body.

As far going into the park....the snow is always great there...grab some sides or edges of? jumps, yep, a little air does wonders for the heart! The skis are going to be head turners! The chicks...yes flocking to Michael and Ron...well if Michael is passing out Baily shots and Ron is passing out fashion advice...yeah, I can see that. Well, with the boys new skis and fashionable colors, maybe the older woman will.....never mind...that's another blog all to itself.

Now Jim, have you tucked away your new 78's safely with mulitple coats of wax on them?

"SHOW ME THE SNOW!"

Best,
Gary


Ron

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2007, 09:32:24 am »
Gary, we are not dissagreeing about its powder ability, its just that a wider ski in powder is just easier to use and becomes more "turnier" and easier to manuever. The 78 will be fine and it will work, its just like saying the Mojo90's can carve on the hardpack, yes they can but they can't hold a candle to the SS's. Its the whole one-ski thing.

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2007, 09:53:31 am »
Ah ha...I think when you said "super versatile inbounds ski"...it got me thinking. Yep...it is that one quivver ski thing. Not sure if the wider ski is more "turnier" but maybe being it's less energy to turn and like you said, easier to manuever. Ok...so I'm hanging on every type written word...what else do have I got to do today?

Jim will be rocking on these skis for sure!

BTW, I just spoke to a friend of mine who skied the "Boat" in Feb..5 feet of snow the week he was there. He did the Steamboat Powder Cat trip and said it was "way" worth the money, first class operation, great people, great food. He did the entry level one and said it was cake although he could have used more pitch due to the deeper and somewhat wetter snow condions.....lucky dog!!!!

G

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2007, 11:38:48 am »
Turnier meaning much easier to turn and the ski is more "eager/willing" to turn. No edges hanging up and more surface area to leverage with. Those who have never skied a wider ski (85 or higher) need to experience this for themselves. I was a nay-sayer. The 78 wil be just fine , I am not arguing that point at all. Getting back to the one-quiver thing, I think if you are going that route, you want a "one-quiver" that meets the majority of what you ski. If you are only skiing east coast groomers, my on equiver would be my SS's or something like the Michaels Contact 11 or the new Magnum. If you are out west and ski trees and off-piste, terrain, I would take my mojo's, 88, PE or something like that.  The 78 however, sounds so versitile and different, that it could have a more effective range than any other ski out there, this is why I am so psyched about it. This is killing me that I can't get on it!

Gary

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Re: The Monster 78, the ultimate do-it-all ski?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2007, 01:30:09 pm »
Yes...I see...happy edges......

Me, for now, and like many here who have been converted, am still a 2 ski  quivver and 2 ski outfit (warm and cold) ski nut.  THis year, it proved to be just the right ticket although never really had any deep snow to test the 82's unfortunately. BUT>>>next year commeth and I'm thinking it's going to be that big snow year. I seem to get the deep stuff every 2 years so. I'm a hoping this will be the season coming. But heck...the rest is still ALL Good!

A basin and Loveland I heard are open and I wonder about Killington?

Still, summer skiing is on the horizon...for now and until then....its swing the club..chase the ball.

Gary