Author Topic: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?  (Read 1874 times)

LivingProof

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2013, 07:31:12 am »
Wow, reality check!! No one ever said a word about Josh's skiing until he without solicitation attacked and critiqued several forum members skiing and he did it pretty consistently after being warned about numerous times. He should feel fine about having his skiing critiqued without solicitation, because that is what he always did.

Your comment above belongs in the "Are you Serious" or "Come on man" section!

John,

I think you cherry picked one line and read something into it that was never intended. There is nothing in my writing that justifies Bush's actions. Read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of Liams post 27, as I think he captured, better, how a PSIA L3 might think about the attacks of his ski teaching.

In any case:
6 years ago, I returned to skiing and during a trip to Utah, I remember laying on the snow, exhaused and bruised, thinking that I had to relearn sking following a 10 year break. That's how I came to both Epic and the PMTS forum. From Harald Harb, I have learned a great deal about ski technique. The man is marvel about breaking down skiing into movements. I played in the technique forums in both Epic and PMTS, but, have long lost my passion for posting about technique in those forums. A lifelong golfer, I've always been fascinated with technique, that carried over into skiing. Today, this pedestrian skier commits to disengage from all discussion about technique in our forum. I'll listen to what accomplished skiers have to say. I'll admire those who can do what I can't on skis. Maybe I'll ask some questions about different techniques just to learn or offer some thoughts to a novice, but, it's not worth risking friendships about how skis are turned. Bottom line, it's about enjoying myself and the great people I get to ski with on the mountain.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 07:33:12 am by LivingProof »

Gary

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2013, 11:01:40 am »
I've skied with you Mike...you're more than a pedestrian skier!

Looking forward to making turns with ya in 31/2 weeks. g

Svend

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2013, 07:48:16 am »
Pedestrian? Er...Mike, I hate to say this, but you're really not supposed to walk with your skis on.  Except across the parking lot back to your car.  Keeps the salt and grit off your shiny boots.


Svend

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2013, 08:46:20 am »
On a more serious note, I have little time to post my thoughts on the "War Zone" question or posting etiquette or BW's recent ousting.  But perhaps some quick comments before this thread grows cold:

I am quite dismayed that the war zone idea was even considered in the first place, and seriously enough that it was actually posited openly on the forum.  It goes completely counter to everything I have previously read here from the moderators and the majority of other members who have expressed their beliefs in mature, civil and respectful exchange.  Why even suggest it? It's an absolutely absurd idea.  It makes it seem like there is an underlying desire from one or more members to vent some unresolved issues, whatever they may be, and "have at it".

On that note, there seem to be a minority of members here that appear willing to drop the gloves and mix it up from time to time, and it's often around PMTS vs. the others.  To be honest, this is getting very tiresome.  Hardly a day goes by or a single thread evolves, without some mention of HH or PMTS.  If it wasn't for the recent contributions (ie. past 12 months) of others who offer a counterpoint and different outlook, and who are contributing here with excellent, well-written posts, I would have deleted my account long ago.  Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against HH or PMTS, and don't intend this as a criticism of either.  I have no other soapbox to stand on, and never get involved in technique discussions or punting another teaching method.  However, there have been times in past when this forum has had a very singular focus, and those who did not share that doctrine were either actively criticized or simply ignored and politely disregarded.

As for the ousting of Josh, I learned of what he had done, and find that kind of action inexcusable for a forum such as this, and in no way do I condone it.  However, there was at least one post in the "One Mountain" thread that I found very confrontational and was a direct attack on Josh.  I consider that as lowering oneself to the same level as Josh (well, perhaps not quite as low, as his subsequent actions showed).  But in such an argument, if one person says or does something low and underhanded, does that mean the other has justification to lower their own standards of behaviour and hit below the belt too? Not in my eyes.

Furthermore, I have been at times very uncomfortable with the way Josh was treated here over the past year.  His character flaws and shortcomings were openly discussed between members, often without his input or rebuttal.  And he received several unprovoked, if subtle, put-downs and jabs about his character that would never have been allowed had they been directed at another member here.  Directed at Josh, however, they were allowed to pass without comment or other sanction.  And, further to my dismay, several of those came from at least one of the moderators.  It makes it seem like there was a double standard here.

OTOH, as I mentioned before, I do respect that the moderators gave BW a voice here and a platform by which to contribute, where other forums had closed the door on him.  I detected active and also subtle coaching and patient mentoring to make him a valued contributor.  The fact that they would have been willing to take him back had he offered an apology, speaks volumes for the leniency and open-mindedness of the moderators here.

So, I am of two minds on that issue, and I hope that it doesn't appear that I contradicted myself.  I could go on, but I simply have no time at present. 

I hope my words on these topics are considered objectively and without prejudice.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:49:57 am by Svend »

jim-ratliff

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Pedestrian Skiing
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2013, 08:48:45 am »
Quote from: Jimr
Svend: My apologies for posting this frivolity after your well thought-out post above. 
Svend:  This must be a language problem with you "northerners".  A "pedestrian skier" is someone who skis on sidewalks and streets and shopping malls, places frequented by pedestrians.  The name came into existence due to the number of pedestrians that such skiers would run over -- because pedestrians didn't realize that skiers had the right of way. 

Historically, that was the reason behind the creation of early ski resorts, to give skiers a place to get away from the pedestrians. 
You still see pedestrians hiking on the hill sometimes (especially at Beaver Creek, it seems), but those pedestrians have at least learned that skiers have the right away.
Only the historical faithful still do pedestrian skiing, oftentimes in college towns where aficionados are "cross country" skiing to school.  Note that the term "pedestrian" has fallen into disuse as modern terms like 'cross country' have become more popular.   :-*
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 09:18:56 am by jim-ratliff »
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Svend

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2013, 08:52:19 am »
ROTFL -- good one Jim! Well put.  But where does Mike fit into that description?  ;D

Svend

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Re: Pedestrian Skiing
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2013, 09:11:04 am »
Jim, it's never the wrong time to have some fun.  Well taken. 

Cheers!


jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2013, 09:13:02 am »
ROTFL -- good one Jim! Well put.  But where does Mike fit into that description?  ;D
I'm not sure?  He mentions laying in the snow battered and bruised, maybe the guy he hit was bigger than him?


More seriously, thanks for your thoughts.  Feel free to PM us (or just "report" the posts) you alluded to regarding moderators tone.  As with everything, there is always room to learn.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2013, 09:35:26 am »
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your openness.  I think that's all for now -- I am out of town on business the rest of the week, so fully occupied.  I may get in touch on the weekend.

All the best...

Gary

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2013, 09:44:32 am »
Well said Svend....

Really....I can't add anything to your well stated comments.

Here's hoping the level of civility and decorum remains.

G

ToddW

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2013, 12:27:51 pm »
Svend,

Quote
However, there have been times in past when this forum has had a very singular focus, and those who did not share that doctrine were either actively criticized or simply ignored and politely disregarded.

The pendulum swings  back and forth.  When I first joined this forum, I was set upon by two then-active members when they discovered I had studied PMTS.  It was then a small minority interest on this forum.  (They were relentless enough that I almost left.  Instead I read threads that interested me and ignored the rest, baiting and all.)  Over the past 18 months, the situation has flipped ... and will no doubt flip flop again.  It's just the way of the internet.  You can help accelerate the change by introducing some of your Canadian skiing buddies to the forum just as Liam got a few Berkshire East guys to sign up.

Ski technique has always been a contentious and divisive issue.  It's been said that if you have 5 ski instructors seated at a table, there are at least six technical opinions around the table ... and all of them are "right."  'course we all know know they're wrong 'cause I'm the one who's got it right  ;D

Edit: typed too fast; omitted 'at least' so made no sense

« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 07:34:32 am by ToddW »

LivingProof

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2013, 03:12:10 pm »
Pedestrian? Er...Mike, I hate to say this, but you're really not supposed to walk with your skis on.  Except across the parking lot back to your car.  Keeps the salt and grit off your shiny boots.

All,

The term "pedestrian" pays homage to Helluvaskier. Sometime in the past, he was touting race skis, and, called all others "pedestrian" skis. I though that was really funny and posted back stating:

"Pedestrian Skis ????"

We're all pedestrian skiers compared to Helluva. IMHO!

HeluvaSkier

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2013, 04:47:04 pm »
Here is the original quote:

"PEDESTRIAN SKIS"  :o :o
All-Mountain: A common descriptive term for boots or skis that are designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2013, 05:05:06 pm »
Actually I think of Helluva as a tree skier par excellence. I've never seen anyone (not even Bush) fly into the trees the way he does.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 05:07:24 pm by jim-ratliff »
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midwif

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2013, 07:15:49 pm »
See, it IS the content of a forum(s) that is the inherent value.

Heluva's spectacular release, the Fischer Babe's finale,  the "neverending story" re ancient history elsewhere chronicled.

Nothing pedestrian about Svend and Todd's memory banks either.

None of these ever seem to disappear once in the public domain.

Sometime it works for you and sometimes it doesn't. :D


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