Author Topic: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?  (Read 1873 times)

HeluvaSkier

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 07:09:04 pm »
Okay, but you have to put them in your own thread. Not this one. ;D

Maybe I need a HeluvaThought of the day thread... perhaps the other forum is a better place for that though.  :P
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midwif

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 07:24:41 pm »
Heluva

Great idea!
Love the name.

How about posting on both sites!
We'll pay you the same as HH does. :P
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jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 08:13:09 pm »
Wrong Lynn.
That's not a great idea, it's a HeluvaIdea.    ;D
And a HeluvaName.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 08:14:25 pm by jim-ratliff »
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HighAngles

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 08:15:40 pm »
I've felt that discussions here have been a bit too clamped down as of lately.  I want a free and open discourse on any topics in the world of skiing.  If you think I'm an idiot - call me an idiot, but then give me the opportunity to either prove it or disprove it.

I also don't completely fit into the typical demographic on TGR, but I do post there and participate regularly.  As we've discussed before, the PeakSkierZone has been the only place where skiers of any background and belief system are welcome to fully participate.  So let's not lose that and make sure that Bush, Max, and anyone else feels that they're adding value and providing insight into the world of skiing. 

Face facts, the more controversial the topic or outspoken the forum member, the more interesting the threads and the richer the content.  Let this forum blossom as a place where all are welcome.  I believe we can self-moderate as well as TGR.

midwif

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 08:56:41 pm »
HA

If someone starts a thread titled " Highangles is a dip-sh*t", is that okay?
By current guidelines, it's not.
Should that be changed?

And just to be clear, I don't think you are ;D


Lynn
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:01:25 am by midwif »
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HighAngles

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 05:53:32 pm »
Well obviously if there's no other content other than that comment then I would say no, that's not acceptable since it's just a personal attack with no basis.  But when arguments blow-up over "beliefs" I don't believe that requires clamping down unless there are unjustified personal attacks.  Hopefully we're all big boys (and girls) and we don't need to run crying to mommy. ;)

LivingProof

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2013, 06:14:37 pm »
My thinking is that our website is founded on the principle, and social commitment  of "respect for others". I give Jim a lot of credit for both "talking the talk"  and for "walking the walk". We are trying to be a band of friends. A few months ago, the mods were very proud that there were few interventions, as they are  something we (the mods) wish never had to happen. Recently, things have changed.

Honestly, most of the issues, and almost all of the interventions by the mods, have center about PMTS related issues. I understand how Josh feels about being told that his skiing does not conform to certain movement patterns. I understand how a L3 PSIA instuctor reacts about being told that his organization/personal knowledge is incorrect. I also understand Harb's challenges to the PSIA community (and agree with most of what he states). I understand how the PMTS community feels the need to speak about ineffective PSIA instruction.

In our world, some see issues as "black and white", i.e. It's either right or wrong. Others see the world in "different shades of grey", which is to say, they see both sides. If you have been trained in "Myers Briggs", you know the concepts of Judgemental of Perceiving. I live in the grey scale world and tend to see both sides. The differences, between the two groups basic thinking, is known to be a major source of distention. It's not as simple as "right and wrong", both sides have truth.

So, I do not favor a war zone. State your beliefs, that's fine by me. Differences exist. But at 2 a.m. when I can't sleep and thing about all the issues in my life, how I turn my skis is not one of them.



midwif

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 06:29:33 pm »
Well obviously if there's no other content other than that comment then I would say no, that's not acceptable since it's just a personal attack with no basis.  But when arguments blow-up over "beliefs" I don't believe that requires clamping down unless there are unjustified personal attacks.  Hopefully we're all big boys (and girls) and we don't need to run crying to mommy. ;)

Original post lost while LP posting!

Substitute another regular forum poster with HA and change "dipsh*t" to SUCKS and you have the idea of what was deleted.
Along with the preceding post with a link to another very public site inviting MA of a skier "he hates".

What happens elsewhere is not the concern of this forum.

What is written here is.
The pathway for continued particpation was pretty simple and probably not the least bit difficult for anyone on this board.


This thread was started by me in a genuine quest for the feelings of the board.

What I take away is this:

Less moderation, but not, NO MODERATION.

Thank you for your honest feedback.


« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 07:18:46 pm by midwif »
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midwif

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 06:35:51 pm »
My thinking is that our website is founded on the principle, and social commitment  of "respect for others". I give Jim a lot of credit for both "talking the talk"  and for "walking the walk". We are trying to be a band of friends. A few months ago, the mods were very proud that there were few interventions, as they are  something we (the mods) wish never had to happen. Recently, things have changed.

Honestly, most of the issues, and almost all of the interventions by the mods, have center about PMTS related issues. I understand how Josh feels about being told that his skiing does not conform to certain movement patterns. I understand how a L3 PSIA instuctor reacts about being told that his organization/personal knowledge is incorrect. I also understand Harb's challenges to the PSIA community (and agree with most of what he states). I understand how the PMTS community feels the need to speak about ineffective PSIA instruction.

In our world, some see issues as "black and white", i.e. It's either right or wrong. Others see the world in "different shades of grey", which is to say, they see both sides. If you have been trained in "Myers Briggs", you know the concepts of Judgemental of Perceiving. I live in the grey scale world and tend to see both sides. The differences, between the two groups basic thinking, is known to be a major source of distention. It's not as simple as "right and wrong", both sides have truth.

So, I do not favor a war zone. State your beliefs, that's fine by me. Differences exist. But at 2 a.m. when I can't sleep and thing about all the issues in my life, how I turn my skis is not one of them.

Mike, I am with you.
We have to acknowledge our leanings, but acknowledge that there is no black or white.
No War Zone.
The Neutral Zone continues without it's opposite.

PS.
WHAT! skiing doesn't keep you up in the middle of the night?
Seriously, I am sometimes surprised at what loop of thought gets caught up in the noggin at weird hours.
L.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:07:03 pm by midwif »
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jbotti

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 10:02:59 pm »

 I understand how Josh feels about being told that his skiing does not conform to certain movement patterns. 



Wow, reality check!! No one ever said a word about Josh's skiing until he without solicitation attacked and critiqued several forum members skiing and he did it pretty consistently after being warned about numerous times. He should feel fine about having his skiing critiqued without solicitation, because that is what he always did.

Your comment above belongs in the "Are you Serious" or "Come on man" section!

jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2013, 12:45:20 am »
John (and anyone else):
I would like your thoughts on which post in the "Slowly, One Small Mountain at a Time' thread sent the thread off the tracks.
I feel it is prior to Reply #43 when Todd tries to moderate, suggesting that everyone calm down.
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epic

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 05:02:15 am »
FWIW - after posts #10 and #11, I'm thinking everyone had to know where that thread was going. The last paragraph in 10 didn't need to be there. But then I'd say #38 is what's going to really light the match. Everyone was keeping it to a low smolder up to there.

Liam

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2013, 05:09:41 am »
JIm,

I just re-read the entire thread...honestly, nothing Bush said (or anyone else) was out of line.  Todd's intervention was wholly unnecessary as Jbotti and 'Bush were more than capable of handling themselves. 

It comes down to this: Bush, correctly, detects the ongoing sneer in every PMTS thread at a a style of instruction he has dedicated 10 years to as a full time instructor (and is now at the Examiner level, above level 3) at a significant resort.  He has, even in the thread in question, said PMTS effectively teaches important ski moves--but chafes at the idea of everything else and every other approach is destructive to acquiring good ski technique.

Yes, he thinks of himself as a high-end instructor and skier--and there is plenty of evidence he is both of those things and he quickly (perhaps too quickly) reacts to any insinuation that he is not one of those two things.  Yep, he feels his ideas should be regarded as highly as Harb's best students (if not also Harb himself)...HuBristic??  Yes!  Completely unfounded??  Not so sure.  'Bush is critical, and egotistical about a lot of things (even towards PSIA....check out his old thread on Epic when he didn't pass his first attempt at Level 3 at Snowbird...)-but, he adds a lot and his banning here pushes this forum one step closer to being the 'soft mouthpiece' for PMTS many feel it already is.

I never had any problem of shrugging off 'Bush's excessive comments as the ramblings of a youngster who will eventually mature...and I have always found his style better than the dismissive passive aggressive (but civil!) postings of others.


Going skiing,

Liam

jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2013, 09:04:32 am »
Liam: Good response.

Everyone: Since one of the recurring themes in this thread is a perception of "over moderation", I have restored the deleted posts in that thread ("One Small Mountain at a Time").

For a short time this am, I restored the post that resulted in BW being on a timeout until we had a chance to mull our response over.
Lynn strongly thought it should  not be brought back to light.

This discussion is not about Bushwacka, it is  aimed at  helping the moderators to understand what the community feels is responsible posting, so give us your thoughts.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 04:17:58 pm by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: Should there be a "WAR Zone"?
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2013, 04:30:36 pm »
FWIW - after posts #10 and #11, I'm thinking everyone had to know where that thread was going. The last paragraph in 10 didn't need to be there. But then I'd say #38 is what's going to really light the match. Everyone was keeping it to a low smolder up to there.
Sorry, i missed your post this morning.
Sooo, as a member,  are replies 38-43 (as they are currently numbered) two grownups having a heated conversation that is acceptable, or out of bounds?
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