Check out this move...The swivel!

[Gary]

Actually Jim...I got that....and I do truly like my fur lined underwear!! 

Now Jim...your point was?   

Best, g

[Gary]

http://mogulmasters.us/forum/?p=511

Liam..check out this clip of John with a more advanced skier....owner of Aspen....

Watch John about 6:18...he can turn up the volume!

G

[Liam]

C'Mon, Jim-I was just talking about the well-heeled ladies John prominently features in his camp videos---I know Gary is the real deal!

I Really like that last video, Gary (he ends again with some swiveling!).

Showed a nice progression from groomer to zipper line.  That's what I'm saying-when someone comes to you and says 'I want to learn to ski bumps"--you have a few options and a few different approaches.  Some yiled better results than others, some take a lot of time and work.   It seems like John has really nailed a teachable technique that gets folks from all walks of skiing off the groomed and into the uneven terrain with balance and control in a pretty short time (respectively).   

You skied with JC at Jackson on a Powder day, huh--that must have been something to see.   Does he stay as floaty-smooth coming through the maw of Tower 3 Chute?

Another thing I realize whenever I watch JC's videos is that I've never Skied the resorts of Aspen...I really should plan a week there....though that would be a wife trip and not a buddy trip (save my pennies and stay at the St. Regis sort of thing).

[jim-ratliff]

Liam. I know.    And you are correct, John may have a preference for a certain type of student.

One of the highlights of his approach is the "follow him through the bumps" moment.  I don't know if he has an exceptional ability to pick a good path through the bumps for the student, or whether it's because a big part of the decision making is taken away as he makes the decisions on where to turn, but it works.  And, as far as I know, it was something that only he did with each student in the group. 

[Liam]

You might have a point there, Max, our bumps tend to be toothier and much more closely packed together .   But there is something to be said for JC's relaxed less edgy technique even in New England moguls.   Still, for a first year student, the lady in the video showed real balance and fairly adept bump negotiation (for a newbie).  And in the final segment of the video with the owner of aspen, JC gets him to negotiate a fairly tight line, in control without stopping---clearly, he learned something of value.

[Gary]

Gentlemen...please allow me to empatically state there is NO skidding;

1 Skidding definition by the dictionary: an unexpected or uncontrollable sliding on a smooth surface

John teaches his students to employ drifting or floating in a controled fashion towards a designated direction.  This float or drift can be used in short bursts for quicker direction changes or longer drifts for more lazy lines through the bumps.

Skidding intimates lack of control and that is certainly not the case. Skiing bumps totally on the edges of the skis, edges scraping down the fronts of bumps, hard edge sets and body angles make skiing bumps at least for me and many I know, very difficult to manage speed and also use loads of more energy. As I said....this is my experience. Furthermore, being able to own the ability to drift or float is a KEY factor to skiing off traill, trees, bowls, powder. I believe this to be a very effective and important skiing skill.

Max, you have a good point about the quaility of the bumps his students are working on...round soft bumps certainly make learning bumps so much easier. Also, it's true following someones line like John does make LEARNING bump skiing much easeier. BUT the point is ...it's about learning to ski the bumps. I have to admit I have a more difficult time with our local icy, toothy bumps we get at Bristol and if they're hard as rock, I stay off them..just no fun for me and may never be. My greatest pleasure is adding JC skill sets to my ski skill quiver and have had wonderful experiences skiing much more of the mountain in a variety of snow condtions with complete confidence.

Liam...there were no chutes that day with John but we were in Saratoga Bowl with bumps and trees galore and yes...he's silky smooth there too.

Best,
G

[bushwacka]

I am intrigued by that video. but as a ski instructor in my mind its not success till someone can do it with out following me. which is the hardest thing to teach and IMO can not be 100 percent taught.

I have a fairly open idea of what good skiing is, and honestly while I think John is skiing well, even the instants of 'turning it up" I do not think he skis great(my standards is pretty high and only about 10-15 people I have ever seen I person would classify as great skiers) with that said I think he could ski anywhere on the mountain smoothly and and in control which is my definition of an expert.

I do think being able to skid, and float, and drift are keys to being good off trail skiers, but to be great i think you have to learn how do slice more than you slarve while still having that option if you need it or want it.

for those of you curious and saying John couldnt ski like that on the EC. I am certain I can do the John techniques in our moguls at stowe. I teach stuff very similar all the time. I feel like bump skiing and short turns on groomers feed into each other alot and one doesnt really come before the other. Bumps are in fact a great way to get students to learn to flex to release instead of extending. that just one of many ways they feed into each other.

[jim-ratliff]

I am intrigued by that video. but as a ski instructor in my mind its not success till someone can do it with out following me. which is the hardest thing to teach and IMO can not be 100 percent taught.

Bush: That is certainly true, but I assume you would agree that much of teaching is setting the student up for success; and getting them "in the bumps" with the most likelihood of a positive experience is what I think John's approach does.  Plus it's a level of "individual attention" that much of his clientele probably appreciates (or expects).

[bushwacka]

M y standards of success are much higher than most students

but i agree with you and its part of the reason I find low angle softer bumps runs at first and do exactly what john is doing.

with that said I use follow me alot less than most people because I actually like to watch students and see what is going on.

[Gary]

Max....the technique does work on narly tight bumps as I've seen John use it by shortening up the movements.

Like "lifting is for learning" (Harold) ....with John, long lazy lines are for learning.

Technique is technique...it's how its applied to particular terrain and the comfort and enjoyement level of the skier.

Bush....during clinics or lessons with John, he does a lot of watching.

As an instructor you can appreciate this...he use green light, yellow light, red light as an individual skier would apply to the personal comfort level in a particular bump line. John will watch closely where the student is comfortable (green light) noting movements the skier owns and picking up movments that the skier needs to improve on to feel comfortable in more difficult bumps.  When he's working in students red light terrain, for sure following a better bumper in deep steep bumps builds confidence and repetition does the rest.

G

[Gary]

Right Max...cause I'm still the student...and in all honesty I can get down those narly eastern bumps...but not as pretty as I can ski those soft round biggies out west...and I"M ok with that. So whether some day I ski the icy, toothy, displaced, icy on trail bumps we get at our resort...I'm not worried about it....I get no great pleasure skiing those.

But what John has masterfully broght to me is the ability to ski 3 D snow with great confindence and like I said....adding another ski skill to my ski skill bag.

BTW...my devotion is to any master that can allow me to ski with confindence anywhere on the mountain. Keeping in mind to that  I have a great deal of respect and devotion to what HH gave me.

For me Max...it's all in the plus column!

G

[Gary]

Dude...wow...Really!?!?

How many world bump champions have you skied with?

My point Max I'm guessing few here will ever ski those gnarly, icy frozen bumps as well as you...some of us actually look to avoid those INBOUNDS crap bumps....still an All Mountain EXPERT skier must ski it all, everything everywhere all over in bounds, out of bounds, side country, in total perfect control and form...so glad you're that level 10 skier, which I may never be.

My final point: The rest of us mortals, young and old look for the most effective way to play in terrain that gives us the greatest satsifaction, you know...fun. For those that are struggling skiing bumps and have not found a technique that works for them....Clendenin offers a simple system IMO that is easy to learn, easy to apply, useable in all mountain conditions, and easy on the body.

For those of you level 10 skiers that ski zipper line in gnarly, icy shark tooth bumps....I bow to your skill....you don't need John.

Best, G