Style and Technique Part Deux: Attack of the Jibbers

[jbotti]

can we get back to Erik H/ skiing, one of the most impressive feats I have seen.

Yes can we get back to that? I hope others have checked out some of those links. BW and I agree on something!

[Liam]

Liam,

I thank you for the effort and thought that you are putting into the technique threads. I am enjoying the videos and your analysis.

Since returning to skiing 5 seasons ago, I have become a chairlift critic of skier?s technique. Like a beer connoisseur (I don?t care for wine), I know what I like and what I don?t like. Even though I would not aspire to either of the two techniques that you have presented thus far, I am enjoying your analysis of how and why these skiers may have adopted their technique.

Since this forum was established as an equipment forum, I have been thinking about ski characteristics that would support the technique styles that you have presented. I suspect jibbers are probably on similar skis as they were using in your video of ?08. Potentially early rise tip characteristics. I doubt that full rocker skis would work well when they venture back into the park. Your wide stance, upper body twisters probably benefit from the newer rocker skis, easier to twist the skis through the fall line.

Speaking of skis, I was in the shop at the base of Sugarloaf yesterday. I didn?t even look at the skis. Knowing what they have carried the last several seasons, I know that they would not be carrying any skis that I would want to ski on. Sad.

Liam, please continue with your postings and don?t let the Hatfields and McCoys get you down.

Thanks for the supportive and thoughtful comments (and those by others).  Ski use, The guys in the first video and their whole crew are all on wider/ more rockered skis now...Truth is, those sort of skis require less fore and aft monkey motion to negotiate  thin cover and tricky off-piste snow...you can balance right on the middle of the them and the tips still glide above the surface (something Bushwacka has been advocating for a long time)--I don't know if they use different boards for the park...probably though.

The wide stancers in the first set of videos in the other thread all consider the Atomic Metron B5 the best all around ski ever made and Icelantic Shaman the ideal powder ski.  They work their edges  and like side cut-they just use a lot of rotary and hip driven power to carve the ski around.

Those that have tried the Rossi S3 like it, and probably for the reasons you suggest (I think that is a great ski as well however).

Yeah, I don't have much to add here.   I've said my thoughts on this style.  I am happy a fair number can get past some of the initial sneer we have towards these skiers and at least attempt to detect a kernel of value and purpose in this very (and growingly) prevalent style of skiing.  I realize for some, the parochial nature of ski discourse will inevitably limit and condition any contribution in these threads.  But hey, that's the nature of free forum discourse, axes will get ground and soapboxes will collapse from repeatedly holding up people. 

Just got a pair of 180cm Head Rock n Roll's in the mail today! --See, I really do value the opinions of all camps around here.

[jbotti]

Just got a pair of 180cm Head Rock n Roll's in the mail today! --See, I really do value the opinions of all camps around here.

Great skis!! Let us know how you like them.

[Svend]

Speaking of Head skis, if anyone stumbles upon a really great deal on a pair of Peak 84's in a 184 length, let me know.  I'm ready to pull the trigger.

Liam -- congrats on the new boards.  No ski season would be complete without at least some new gear  .  And a new pair of skis, well, that's just so sweet.

[Liam]

The far majority of rockered skiers ski from a backseat position. I'm guessing this is a reaction to lack of tip pressure.

I have both of those skis and neither requires a wide stance. The video doesn't demonstrate working their edges and "a lot of rotary" does not cause a ski to carve.

The videos I linked earlier demonstrate that there is a difference between lack of technique supported by athletic ability and solid technique supported by athletic ability. Style and athletic ability should not be confused with technique.

Honestly, if you want to imperiously push yet another thread into a specific technique discussion, the proper thing to do would be to start a thread dedicated to that purpose. 

Max neither you or I have seen the Majority of skiers do anything...but in a black and white world it gets awful easy to speak in absolutes.  I am really not sure why these threads rankle you so...are you really incapable of getting past the constant hawking of a set of ski instruction manuals/ videos and high priced group lessons? 

No one in these threads is pushing any technique, making claims of best vs. worst. This ain't a 'how to ski" thread.   

No one is asking for lessons in this thread.  I am just looking at what is, and why it is, and how it works.  If you don't feel you can contribute to that, or add some thoughtful direction, or if you just feel the whole enterprise is beneath contempt-well, that's all well and good, maybe this ain't for everybody.  But why participate at all in this thread?  What are you after?  Seriously, sometimes I really get the sense you are actively selling a product more than engaging in discussion over here (a sense others have had elsewhere, right?).

You have a different style of skiing and it is born from different goals, different ideas of long term enjoyment and a different  image you like to craft of your skiing.  I assume you ski very well and to a level that makes you happy.  All very worthy variables (as much as any excessive pursuit of recreational playtime is worthy, of course....but we're all guilty on that count). Why aren't you content with that?  Those who want to learn to ski like you (especially on this forum) already know where to look.  And of course, you are free to start all the technique threads your heart desires (of course, they happen in a less controlled atmosphere over here than they would over there, but most posters on this forum are already sympathizers). 

Just saying, you're spoiling for a debate that is well outside the boundaries and the spirit of these threads.  It reminds me of how confrontational religious evangelists always try to pull conversations sideways so they can slide in their spiritual pitch. 

[midwif]

Learning to ski in my later 30's and my first experience being taught
the "mighty wedge", I think there was little hope any natural athleticism
was going to overcome a bad start.

For many on this forum, I think that is why we have been attracted to PMTS.
Sequential building blocks that make sense. Something our brains could work on
since the body wouldn't do it automatically.

Those young jibbers are quite amazing. But like Botti said, any effort on our part to emulate
would result in pain  and probably injury.

That loose and easy look is remarkable and I know in my heart I will never attain much of that
relaxed look while I ski.

But, I want to remind everyone that all points of view are welcome here.
You can even admire PSIA  teaching if you want.
I'll try to keep the snickering to a dim level.

[meput]

Hey Lynn,

Happy to see that you are now giving Rhett his due. I guess if we don't know what to do, we will just have to go to home to Tara.

[HighAngles]

The Hoji videos are jaw droppingly good skiing.  I quite literally sat their with my mouth agape as I watched Eric descend down that pillow line in the first vid.  That's skiing from a different world - possibly a different plane of existence.

There are skiers who can ski rockered skis with good technique.  Many have racing backgrounds, some do not.  There's quite a crew that regularly ski at Loveland on their big boards no matter what the conditions and they achieve some really great angles - generally very big toe/stance ski dominant skiing (lots of little stems between turns in their releases), but at least they're not living in the backseat.

There's style and then there's the technique that's the foundation of the style.  If the style is lacking a sound, fundamental solid foundation in how to properly use a ski then it's hard for me to give it much props.  That's where the comments on the "athleticism" come from, because the only way to survive using a backseat and twist the skis style is to have strength and good joints.  They won't last long skiing like that.