Author Topic: A puzzling choice...  (Read 2436 times)

ToddW

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A puzzling choice...
« on: September 11, 2012, 08:52:26 pm »
Hmmmm.  I wonder if America's U18s are best served by an administrator / coach with Rogan's corpus of writings and free skiing videos.  Is there any public video of him skiing serious gates?

http://usskiteam.com/news/rogan-joins-alpine-development-staff

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LivingProof

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2012, 07:14:02 am »
Todd,

In reading the press release, there is statement that Rogan's principal responsibility is to be the interface between USSA  and local race training programs to promote the recently developed USSA SkillsQuest program. Details can be found at the below link.

http://alpine.usskiteam.com/alpine/skillsquest

The devil is always in the details, and the program, at first glance, appears comprehensive. Development starts at a very young age, teaching simple skills, like jumping over a series of poles laying across the fall-line. I've no experience in the development of younger skiers in racing programs, other, than to observe the junior racing programs at my local mountain.

Rogan has a high profile, so, that will help market the program. How much he contributed to the development or how much he believes in the program are unknown.  I'm not qualified to evaluate the program, so, I await the input of those with more knowledge. Epic's thoughts would be of interest as he is both an instructor and parent of young racers.

I can hear the Harbian loyalist vomiting as skills, as opposed to movements, are taught by USSA. Should be some interesting reads upcoming in the PMTS forum about this program. :o







 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 07:15:35 am by LivingProof »

ToddW

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2012, 08:10:41 am »
I had avoided posting this over there, not wanting to start a global conflict.  After reading your reply, curiosity won out and I visited the forum.

The first reply was a positive one by a European member of the forum.

Quote
That's great news!

- for the Swedish team  ;D


Liam

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2012, 08:51:15 am »
Article says that Rogan has experience developing pre-race warm ups for USSA women's speed teams.   Well, top speed event racers have been the USA women --and yes, one in particular, but still, it says something that he had a meaningful role working with such a successful program (2012 Dh/ SG dominated by Vonn and Mancuso).

I know Rogan has been a lightning rod figure on the ski forums....though I have never understood why. 

He never posts anything inflammatory (and rarely speaks out at all) and he's a great skier and instructor.  I did meet him once through a friend (the guy who taught me to ski, really cut his teeth learning from Rogan/ Jimmy Ackerson at Heavenly way back in the early 1990's).   Honestly, his style never looks very flashy or excessively dynamic in the go pro videos, but if you ever get a chance to ski with him in person you'll see that he is the epitome of power and balance.

I think he's a fine candidate to help juniors who have been hyper focused on bashing gates for 10 years broaden their skill set.  Good For Mike Rogan!

Short video of his skiing style: No Frills, no nonsense, but he's moving quick and strong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RURLVnJf4c

« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 08:55:58 am by Liam »

jbotti

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 11:20:00 pm »
The video is like every other video I have seen of Rogans skiing. I think most PMTS skiers would say that his skiing is not what we aspire towards. So many of the basic fundamentals that we stress in our skiing are absent or barely present in his skiing. I have never seen him in gates but judging by what I have seen in video I don't think that he would ever get the angles and forward pressure necesary to ski gates well. Thus Todd's question rings true for me.

jbotti

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 04:38:44 pm »
This article was posted on the PMTS forum. It has 11 pictures of Mike skiing on Rockered skis and the article says that Rocker is a cure for most skiing aliments. If so, this is a very poor advertisement for it (as none of the pictures show appealing form even for non PMTSers). He is in some really bad positions and quite aft in almost every shot.

It is another reminder that for most the marketing pitch that with Rockered skis you can and will ski more forward in powder isn't reality. Most on rockered skis actually ski more aft. The difference is that with tail rocker you can get away with it as you can pivot your skis when the tails are weighted.

http://www.skinet.com/ski/galleries/rockerrx-miracle-cure-most-slope-ailments

LivingProof

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 06:57:17 am »
Well, if nothing else, the Rogan thread has brought HH, himself, back to posting on his own forum!

I have spent some time taking a look at the specifics of the USSA program, and, I am puzzled. I remember riding a chair with Helluvaskier and he was just ranting about the lack of quality ski racing instruction available to junior skiers. Successful programs did not share training programs, and, finding a good coach was a crap shoot. Admittedly, I'm biased to PMTS, and I think a young racer can learn more from "Essentials of Skiiing" than spending time in the various matrix drills of this USSA program.

And why not have a former racer be the interface for program? Pretzel Logic!


bushwacka

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 05:27:19 pm »
This article was posted on the PMTS forum. It has 11 pictures of Mike skiing on Rockered skis and the article says that Rocker is a cure for most skiing aliments. If so, this is a very poor advertisement for it (as none of the pictures show appealing form even for non PMTSers). He is in some really bad positions and quite aft in almost every shot.

It is another reminder that for most the marketing pitch that with Rockered skis you can and will ski more forward in powder isn't reality. Most on rockered skis actually ski more aft. The difference is that with tail rocker you can get away with it as you can pivot your skis when the tails are weighted.

http://www.skinet.com/ski/galleries/rockerrx-miracle-cure-most-slope-ailments


 I am also confindent that  a clone of me skiing  cambered mid fats would get crushed by my skiing rockered skis in the powdery woods. Id be able to out turn, out g force, out last, go faster with else effort than my poor clone buddy. Still waiting for one of the PMTS expert skiers to come to to stowe and show me other wise.  Untill then I be critical of not only of PMTS but the PSIA as I try to change one from the inside.

BTW I not the hugest rogan fan either, its one of the things that got me kicked off epic ski. I am certain that I could outski him at stowe.

Liam

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 07:14:01 pm »

 I am also confindent that  a clone of me skiing  cambered mid fats would get crushed by my skiing rockered skis in the powdery woods. Id be able to out turn, out g force, out last, go faster with else effort than my poor clone buddy. Still waiting for one of the PMTS expert skiers to come to to stowe and show me other wise.  Untill then I be critical of not only of PMTS but the PSIA as I try to change one from the inside.

BTW I not the hugest rogan fan either, its one of the things that got me kicked off epic ski. I am certain that I could outski him at stowe.

it's good to see you have your swagger back, it was getting dull around here.

jbotti

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 10:14:19 pm »

 BTW I not the hugest rogan fan either, its one of the things that got me kicked off epic ski. I am certain that I could outski him at stowe.

Well I would hope so!! Take a look at those pics!!

You might also want to re-read my post. I don't believe I have said what you think you read.

jim-ratliff

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2012, 09:23:22 am »
Wellll, it appears that ski seaon is indeed nigh.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Liam

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 02:23:06 pm »
Hey did anyone else see the Ski Magazine Buyer's Guide? .....There are a bunch of still shots of Rogan skiing, I don't know if there are links to any of that ...but on page 62 (I think) there is a pretty impressive shot of the man carving (as well as a few others)...If any have seen these I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...I think they might broaden the assessment of Rogan a bit more.


Liam

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 04:14:07 pm »
Are you saying you've never used still photos to illustrate good technique???   :o  Check out the shots if you can--he looks good...possibly even by anyone's standards.


smackboy1

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 05:31:26 pm »
Hey did anyone else see the Ski Magazine Buyer's Guide? .....There are a bunch of still shots of Rogan skiing, I don't know if there are links to any of that ...but on page 62 (I think) there is a pretty impressive shot of the man carving (as well as a few others)...If any have seen these I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...I think they might broaden the assessment of Rogan a bit more.

Here we go:

http://www.skinet.com/ski/image/2012/09/2012-ski-test-michael-rogan-ft

http://web.acuweather.com/en/outdoor-articles/ski/2013-buyers-guide-preview-in-d/71645

I'm not a ski instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Liam

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Re: A puzzling choice...
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2012, 05:33:36 am »
That's the one, Smackboy (picture 1) that I was thinking of.  Second is pretty good as well. 

Pretty deep flex (hip on snow) and angle--looks goods to me, but then again, I'm not actually trained in what to look for.  But I just thought it'd be another look at Rogan's skiing not previously discussed.