Author Topic: some stoke from vermont  (Read 817 times)

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
some stoke from vermont
« on: July 21, 2012, 05:29:20 am »
pictures courtsey of Epic.

me






dave







Epic the photo man





bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 05:18:45 am »
I thin we have poison ivy but really I am not sure since I am immune to it.

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 05:25:18 am »
do you ride that? looks really fun, I have know about bend for awhile now, just never gotten there yet.

Raystown lake Pa is very similar but the whoops jsut far enough part that doubling them does not really work. In vermont there are only a couple sections of some trails like that.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 08:23:06 pm »
Josh -- great pics.  Those woods look a lot like what I ride with my father-in-law on the west coast, on Vancouver Island.  I visit him once a year when I'm out there on business, and take at least three days for riding.  Fun trails.  Your terrain is definitely more challenging than the flowy singletrack we have here in my part of Ontario.

How are you liking the Giant? Sweet looking bike.


bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 05:45:08 am »
Josh -- great pics.  Those woods look a lot like what I ride with my father-in-law on the west coast, on Vancouver Island.  I visit him once a year when I'm out there on business, and take at least three days for riding.  Fun trails.  Your terrain is definitely more challenging than the flowy singletrack we have here in my part of Ontario.

How are you liking the Giant? Sweet looking bike.

we have flowly singletrack as well, and I would argue that this tech looking stuff flows pretty damn well.

as for the Giant I honestly do feel its the one of the best XC bikes out there.

The geo is pretty much dialed and its feel great doing most anything you would find in any XC race. I wish it was lighter but that just takes money. The shimano shifting has been pretty good, the fox fork has been mearly ok and has gotten much better as the seals wore out and started leaking oil. with that said I still feel my rockshox I have had have been alot better in plushness and been more reliable. a SID RCT3 will see service here at some point in time.

climbs better than any hardtail, carry speeds better than any bike I have owned, and decends quicker than people on much bigger bikes. last year at a team 24 hour race i lent this bike to 2 of my teammates who both made huge improvement on their times on their 4th and final lap. both of them knew the course very well before the race as well so it was just not learning the course. proving that it may be about the bike.

Kent competive sport rider whos bike was a x0 level giant trance  had a been running 1:40 laps for 3 laps in a row on his lap on my bike he got a 1:23
Justin who is national ranked expert Cat1 junior rider on a carbon hardtail jamis 29er went from a 1:30 to a 1:17
I had 2 1:11s a 1:15 and my final lap was a 1:09 at the time I was no where near as fit as I am now and I still ended up in the top 10 fastest laps out of some 220 riders team and solo. all on a 29lb bike could you imagine if it was 23lb like the carbon one with XX is now? Hopefully soon I own a 23lb giant anthem and do not have to imagine anymore.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 07:24:52 am »
Interesting comments on the Giant.  I will check out the geo compared to others out there, and see what it is that Giant has done that makes it so good.  A quick glance at the specs shows a longer chainstay than I would have expected, given your comment on it being a good climber.  Interesting.

As for weight, I really don't pay much heed to that anymore (to a point).  As you said, lightness costs money, and I am not a racer so there is no direct correlation for me there.  For a strictly recreational bike, give me a stronger rig that can take some solid hits and some drivetrain pounding, than one that's a kilogram lighter that I have to pamper and baby all the way along the trail.  Besides, from the results your teammates were getting on your bike, I'd say that weight really matters far, far less than geometry, suspension design, and other factors (low rolling resistance, drivetrain/hub friction, etc.).

BTW, for the money, it looks like Giant is putting better components on their bikes than they used to a few years ago.  I made this comment before, that when we were looking at new bikes about 3 or 4 years ago, the Giant models just didn't measure up to others with their component specs, dollar for dollar.  That seems to have changed, judging by what I see on your Anthem and its MSRP.  Nice.  I might have to look at their models next time I'm in the market for a new bike (which may be sooner than later, as the soft rear triangle on the Paragon is really starting to annoy me -- talk about a power drain).


Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2012, 11:27:40 am »
I spent two days in Waterbury, VT about a month ago...wonderful trails (I hadn't ridden there before).  Stowe-Waterbury comprises one of the greatest riding regions in the US (without all the pomp and circumstance of some other regions), and is definitely in my top 3 Northeast riding regions.

Giant has long made the best spec'ed, and in my opinion, best built mountain bikes among all the big brand bike companies.  The Maestro is a great suspension design, and I think the Anthem 29er is well and by far the most versatile (especially for hilly, technical New England single track) dual suspension bike I have ridden.

Everyone I see on a Specialized I always think, there goes another victim of marketing who could've saved 1500 bucks and ridden a better bike. 

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2012, 12:13:53 pm »
Liam, that's good to know about Giant.  I just remember comparing their 26" hardtails, in about the $2000 range, to other brands a few years ago when shopping for a bike for my wife.  Giant really didn't measure up in that category, but then again, neither did Specialized or GT or Trek or Cannondale.  This was at a time when the US dollar was trading at +30% against the Canadian dollar, so the US brands were getting nailed with the exchange rate and import duties.  Canadian and European brands were far more attractive -- Rocky, Norco, De Vinci, Scott, etc.  She ended up buying a sweet XC race bike from a small Montreal maker named Opus.  It was just way better value for money -- same components as US bikes costing $500 more, and far nicer frame build too.  That has since changed now that the currencies are more or less at par, and things have leveled out a lot.

I bought my Fisher at the same time, and although it was from the US, it was at a better price because 29ers were a really hard sell in Toronto at the time -- few shops carried them, and those that did had a tough time convincing their customers of their merits.  They were anxious to make a deal.  Unfortunately, there being little choice in models, I ended up with the Paragon.  This is a decent bike, and great fun to ride, but with all the improvements in 29er design and frame quality since then, and far more choice out there with virtually every brand, I would not buy the same bike today.  The components are fine, the geometry works well, but the frame is just not up to par.  Compared to, say, a De Vinci frame, there is a night and day difference. 

In fact, I am starting to snoop around the web at the bike company sites to see what's new in 29er hardtails, with the idea of possibly trading in the Paragon for a new ride sometime in the coming months.  Haven't made it to the Giant site yet (except to check out the Anthem) but will do so soon and see if they have a good hardtail.  So far I like the Marin, Niner and Kona models.  De Vinci has a beautiful frame, but only so-so components that would need upgrading.  I'm not even looking at Specialized or Trek/Fisher.  Not sure what Cannondale or GT have in 29ers, but will check 'em out.  I'll get into some shops and kick some tires soon too.  Should be fun.



Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 01:26:48 pm »
That's right, you're a Canadian...which reminds me of another advantage you have...Horst Link Suspension designs...in the US, Spec holds the patent and for years have blocked a number of small Canadian companies from selling their bikes (unless the redesigned for us specific market) with Horst link designs (like Devinci).  BUt I know in Canada, plenty of brands sport that very excellent suspension design (the reason so many companies eventually developed their own multi-link active design was because they were tired of paying Specialized to sell to an american market, not because the Horst Link wasn't a great design.).

I think most of the Canadian major players make great bikes, too...especially Rocky Mountain and Banshee (the Banshee paradox is my main ride right now).  Yeah, with the exchange rates et al. (plus a nationalist pride) it makes great sense to stay with a Canadian brand.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2012, 02:06:28 pm »
Hmmm....interesting .  This is something I did not know, as I have never paid much attention to suspension designs, not ever having bought or had the need to research this.  A quick glance at Wikipedia just now taught me a lot.  It seems I have spent a lot of time on a Horst link bike and didn't even know it.  That is: my father-in-law's Norco Fluid One (another Canadian brand), which I ride when I visit him on Vancouver Island.  Great bike, built like a tank, sweet handling.  This is the only full-suss bike I have ever ridden that I actually had fun on.  You can blast through a gravel stream bed with softball- to cannonball-sized rocks and not even feel it.  Climbing energy for long hauls is a bit muted, but then he has heavy tires mounted on it, which don't help.  All-round great bike, though.  He has offered to sell it to me for a song, as it is a bit too large for him.  I think I might just do that....  8)

Further, my brother just bought a De Vinci Dexter with a DW split pivot suspension design.  Very sweet bike; beautifully made.  Shame that it's too small for me, otherwise I would steal it for a weekend.  Compared all the other bikes he test rode, this one was the most responsive, best climber, least energy sucking of the bunch.  He loves it, and zips through the tight single track in his woods like a jack rabbit. 

You are right on -- Canadian companies do make some great bikes.  My wife's Opus hardtail is another example.  Super light, agile, quick acceleration, amazing climber, great frame build.  I will replace the fork eventually, as that is the only weak spot on the whole bike.  Otherwise a very sweet bike, and well worth upgrading its parts.

Rocky Mountain has apparently really upped it's fun factor in the past year or two, with their new rear suspension design (RSL series, using the 3D Link, I think....whatever that means). Supposed to be a big improvement over previous models, which felt pretty lame to me when I test rode one a few years ago. 

« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 02:40:59 pm by Svend »

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 03:06:03 pm »
Banshee -- thanks for reminding me about them, Liam.  You don't see them much out here, maybe one or two shops in Toronto carry them, but they are quite popular out west.  They are fantastic bikes.  I hadn't considered looking at those until your mention.  The Paradox looks like it would fit my needs perfectly.  The geometry is similar to my Fisher wrt. seat tube and head tube angles, which is a very good thing.  But the rear triangle looks like a far superior build.  In fact, the shape of the tubing looks just like that on my wife's Opus, and is probably greatly responsible for its excellent responsiveness and generally super-fun ride quality.

Well done! You got me onto something good here...  8)




bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 04:23:18 pm »
so I have to say it since the topic has drifted I rode a pretty low end Rocky Mountain Element 29er and it was alot of fun and pretty  fast. Its the first non dual link suspension bike I have ever ridden and felt it pedaled well while still being plush. I would own the cheap rocky over the highest end Trek Superfly or  Specialized Epic any day, the rocky suspension works well the other 2 kinda of suck IMO.


Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 09:46:50 pm »
Josh, was it is recent model Rocky? I have heard some really good things about their new RSL line, specifically wrt. the improvements in the suspension.  I'd like to try one again, as it's been a few years since I rode a Rocky.

Interesting that you would prefer a lower end bike like that over a top shelf Trek or Spec.  I'm beginning to be a firm believer that the frame quality and geometry of the bike matter way more than the bolted on component parts.  In other words, they can tack on all the fancy, lightweight parts in an attempt to give a bike some cred or bling, but if the frame is poor, then no high end cranks or wheels or drivetrain will make it better.  As my friend from Georgia would say: "It's like putting lipstick on a pig".  Not sure if my Fisher fits that description, but I guess I will find out once I test ride some of the new 29er models out there.

So....Liam....descr ibe this Banshee of yours, if you please? The geometry looks almost identical to that of my Paragon, which is intriguing because I really like the way the bike maneuvers in virtually all terrain.  Descending, climbing, cornering -- it's all good.  Tight twisty hairpins on singletrack take a bit of technique, and I can't get lazy or sloppy there or else it's trouble -- the right body position is crucial, more so than with most 26ers I've ridden.  Otherwise, I think that Fisher got it right with their geometry -- 69 deg. HTA; 72 deg. STA; 440 mm CSL.  Almost exactly like your Banshee.  TTL and SOH are slightly longer/higher, but otherwise the bikes seem very close.

How does the Banshee handle? Climb? Descend? Smooth ride? Responsive acceleration?

FWIW, and this goes back to a comment Josh made about more slack head tubes, I test rode a few 29ers that had a steeper HTA, and I hated them.  Way too twitchy.  Conversely, if they are too slack, then the ride just gets boring for me, and I get no fun out of it.  The 69 deg. angle feels just perfect.

Cheers,
Svend


bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 06:01:52 am »
new RSL, obviously I would prefer the better components as well  but IMO the Treks/specialized racing FS 9ers just are not good. The rocky was flat out fun and motors though terrain.

I still have yet to look at geo number but one big difference is that the seat tube was really steep basically putting you right over the pedals. Made the bike alot easier to pedal. I am taking a couple days off riding so i should have time to do a more though review.


Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2012, 06:39:00 am »
...obviously I would prefer the better components as well...

Agreed.  I think better components are very worthwhile for better performance and a more pleasurable ride.  Smoother shifting, smoother braking, less friction, less weight, less tiring.  But further to my point below, good components can help make a good frame into a great bike.  And even with mediocre components it'll still be a good bike.  Whereas if you start with a poor frame, even the best XO or XTR can't turn it into anything more than a mediocre ride.  Which is, I think, exactly what you were saying about Trek/Specialized.

I'm very curious now to see how some of the new bikes feel and perform compared to my Paragon.  Will post back at the end of summer and let you know if it's worth switching.  What's encouraging, is that the prices don't seem to have climbed much.  You can still get a well-outfitted 29er hardtail for under $2500, and that's full list.  And there is so much more choice out there now, which is brilliant.

On the subject of the rise in popularity of 29ers, I rode with my 13 year old daughter last evening in our local forest, and we watched some of the weekly Tuesday night race that was going on.  I would say that about 50% to 60% of the bikes in the race were 29ers.  Remarkable.  Only 2 years ago that number would have been 5% to 10%.  And of 29ers we saw, about one third were of the fully rigid variety -- carbon or chromoly fork only.  Not sure if any were single speeds, though, but I'm sure there were a few.  Cool!


bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2012, 07:13:34 am »
some more from epic's and others camera's

riding the berms at Norwich University trails



Manualin the monster truck



Epic on some of the buffest trails anywhere






Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 08:55:45 am »
Nice socks, Josh! Checkered flag theme makes you faster, eh?

Great pics, though.  Looks like some fun trails down there.  Very similar to what's around here.  No berms here, though, which is too bad as they look like a blast to ride.


jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 09:17:01 am »

That last picture of Epic looks like a nice example of what I call counter balancing, or tipping the bike more than is required by balance to tighten the turn. 
Something that I'm working on, rather than more rotary of the handlebars.
Nice pictures.


Josh, a question about your bar ends. They look awfully flat (horizontal) compared to where I find mine to be comfortable. What am I missing?  Is it because you are out of the seat or weight more forward much of the time that you find that angle comfortable?
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2012, 10:08:36 am »
epic is barely turning really that section IMO is straight.

The angle of those bars end was set like this. I left them lose enough to move but just tight enough to ride mellow trails. I moved them where they felt most comfortable and then tighten them. generally they are only used while climbing or flatter road section.

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2012, 10:27:22 am »
I was just about to say that Epic was perfectly straight and it was the camera that was tilted (unless there is some forest in Northern VT where the trees all grow crooked  :D)-but Josh beat me to it.

Good photos as always.
Lot's of great places to ride in VT...there's so much more (and better) riding in VT than KT.

That Rocky Mountain is one of 2 29ers I'm keen to demo.   I'm hoping to get a chance to pedal an early edition Trance X 29er later this fall through the local shop (we deal Giants, among others)--I always liked the Anthem 29er, but not enough to give up the Hard Tails....this one might do it, though.



« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:31:55 am by Liam »

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 10:36:51 am »
IMO the trance 29er is going to be better bike than the Anthem X 29er for more people.

slacker angles, longer top tube, and shorter chain stays. I do not really like any of the builds really though.

My dream trance 29er is this

suspension
Fork - 140mm Revelation RCT3 dual air(if I can find one)
shock -Monarch Vivid Air Rear shock

Brakes - XTR Trails/XO Trails not sure which ones yet.

Wheelset

Enve Carbon with DT swiss 240s

Drivetrain

full XX1

dropper post

Rockshox Reverb




Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2012, 10:57:14 am »
IMO the trance 29er is going to be better bike than the Anthem X 29er for more people.

slacker angles, longer top tube, and shorter chain stays.

I think you are right.  I like the geometry of the Trance.  It is very similar to my Fisher, but with slightly longer CS on the Trance.  IMO it just works so well for all conditions while still being fun to ride and not have lazy handling.  Very well balanced design, and more 29ers seem to be adopting this geometry as this class of bike matures.

Nice bike, the Trance is....

Is Epic riding a Rocky? Is that what Liam was referring to? If so, which one?




Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2012, 12:08:32 pm »
Your dream wheelset will cost more than your bike, however, Josh  :D

A friend of mine (just moved back from Northern, VT in fact) has a pro sponsorship from Enve and loves their rims.  I'd love them, too....but I'd also like to stay married and have to forgo 2500.00 mountain wheel sets!  I'm happy with my 'ghetto' Stans Flow 29er rims laced to Hope Hubs by the one and only Dave Thomas (no, not of Wendy's) of Speedream wheels.  Best builder in the business.

I think I would only want to upgrade the wheel set from the giant brand on the trance.   Though, I do like a 20mm thru axle over the 15mm as well (and I have long preferred the better Rock Shock forks to the unserviceable Fox Forks).  For me, Drive train bits are drive train bits, doubles/ single/ xo, xt, xx...sure some are nicer than others, but matter very little in the long run.  The key to a great bike is Wheels, tires, a Frame and a Fork the rest is just window dressing.

Though...the XX1 is another exciting (if pricey) option, I think I can wait for that to trickle down to the XO and X9 levels before buying in.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 12:39:08 pm »
For me, Drive train bits are drive train bits, doubles/ single/ xo, xt, xx...sure some are nicer than others, but matter very little in the long run.  The key to a great bike is Wheels, tires, a Frame and a Fork the rest is just window dressing.

Though...the XX1 is another exciting (if pricey) option, I think I can wait for that to trickle down to the XO and X9 levels before buying in.

Just remember, last year's XTR/XO is this year's XT/X9.  I'm with you on that one Liam (and with everything else you said above) -- if it shifts gears and does it with nary a grind or a clunk, it's good enough for me (although some of lower end stuff is a bit rough around the edges, I do admit).  On our bikes we have some X7, X9, and XT Shadow -- kept tuned and lubed, they all snick through the gears with just a whisper.  The XT Shadow, in particular, is so stealthy quiet in shifting I can barely hear my wife coming up behind me to pass (this happens often  ::) ).



« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 12:50:42 pm by Svend »

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 12:50:59 pm »
Your dream wheelset will cost more than your bike, however, Josh  :D



Just wanted to pass along that the Neuvation web site (specializes in wheels, but has some other stuff) has been really pushing Enve wheels at very agressive prices (and with various rims). Take a look and see if their prices are as good as I think they are.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 12:57:30 pm »


So if I look at Epic, the fork/front tube is pointing at his inside shoulder.  If I look at the front wheel vs. the rear wheel, there is about the same steering slip angle as Josh shows in the first picture when he is up on a bank and turning much sharper? If I look at the relative angle to the ground, Epic's bike looks tipped while he remains upright more so than Josh's in the first picture.  -- 


At least that's the way it looked to me, so I appreciate the correction from better and more experienced eyes.
I do see that Epic is not in as sharp a turn as Josh.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 01:25:03 pm »
Trees grow at 90 degrees (roughly) even on the sides of very steep mountains, tilt the picture so the trees are straight up and down, then it looks more like the side to side tilting sometimes generated by out of the saddle pedaling effort.

There is a picture on the first page of this thread (I believe of the same rider) that shows a little more of a true cornering situation....and then there's Josh on the high berm....berms allow for downright thrilling, high-speed, MXer style cornering (which is why people build them in the first place)--they take care of the whole angulation thing for you so you only have to focus on speed and line (both of which can be far more aggressive in a well built berm).

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2012, 01:26:39 pm »
Hey Jim,  I think it's a bit tricky to analyze mtn. biking technique and body position from just one picture, esp. one that was not intended to be used as an example of a particular move or technique, etc..  Riding off road is so dynamic, and the body does not remain static for more than a few seconds, or never on a rough trail.  A snapshot may catch a rider in what seems like an odd position, but what is really just part of the flow of movement across the terrain.  If you notice, Epic is up off the saddle in that pic, and, like any good rider, is probably letting the bike move up and down and side to side beneath him as it moves over the uneven terrain -- staying loose and letting the bike find it's way, in other words.  The pic may have just caught him in such a moment when the bike was tilted slightly.   For this sort of thing, nothing beats video; or even better, being there. 

Anyway, that's my take on it.....  I'll let the guys who were actually there sort that out.

Cheers!


epic

  • Instructor
  • <100 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2012, 01:35:07 pm »
That picture is just after landing a scrub from the jump right behind. So as much as it's setting up the next turn, it's also straightening out from before.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 01:48:20 pm »
Trees grow at 90 degrees (roughly) even on the sides of very steep mountains, tilt the picture so the trees are straight up and down, then it looks more like the side to side tilting sometimes generated by out of the saddle pedaling effort.
Being from the flatlands of Kansas, I don't think I ever knew that.
Yes, that changes the perception quite a bit.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 02:34:18 pm »
Looking at your avatar picture, it looks like the people in Kansas don't grow at 90 degrees either.   :D 

Oh, wait....that's a ski move...sorry Jim.  ::)  My bad....  ;)


jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 03:05:49 pm »
The picture is tilted.  If you rotate the picture 10 degrees either direction then you get a better idea of my true ski skills.


Actually, many of the trees in Kansas don't grow at 90 degrees. They lean north because of the steady winds from the south during the growing season.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 08:23:42 pm »
Actually, many of the trees in Kansas don't grow at 90 degrees. They lean north because of the steady winds from the south during the growing season.

My point exactly.  In your picture, you are clearly leaning north.   ;D 

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2012, 06:14:17 pm »
climbing traction galore from maestro, and torque from my legs at Millstone



the endless bridges of Burnham Down on Burke Mountain.



Go team green



epic on the Gnar of Dead Moose Abuse, Kingdom Trails




Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2012, 06:54:00 pm »
Great pics.  Good one Josh.

The bottom one is of quality worthy of magazine publication.  Very nicely done.  What camera was that taken with?  I have a good point-and-shoot, but always seem to end up with way too much contrast in the forest shots on a sunny day.  Makes the pics look terrible.


bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2012, 07:09:13 pm »
would you believe if I told you that everything your seeing here is Epic's B level stuff?

I have no idea on the camera.....since its his. but I do know that the reason for these shots looking great is a couple remote flashes, powered by pocket wizards. every shot you see with one person is a three person operation. the shot of epic is epic riding, Mike thomas shooting, and me with a flash.


Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2012, 07:15:07 pm »
OK.  I'm impressed.  That's some real talent at work, and a lot of effort and care in the shots.  Very well done!  Congrats to you all.

And no wonder my shots don't look like that  ::)  Can't hope to replicate that quality with a little pocket camera.

This is about the best I've got....





[old attachment deleted - file maintenance]
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 07:35:05 pm by Svend »

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2012, 09:50:25 am »
May I ask how you guys embedded the photos directly into your posts? All I seem to be able to do is add them as attachments, but yours are inserted directly into the body of the post.  Let me know your.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 09:59:32 am by Svend »

epic

  • Instructor
  • <100 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2012, 06:44:23 pm »
What camera was that taken with

The camera is a Nikon D700 we were using a Nikon SB-700 and a SB-900 with PocketWizard triggers. They really help a lot with contrast on sunny days. Which isn't to say it can't be done. In that shot of me, the sun is really bright without the flashes that would have pretty much been a silhouette. Flash duration is like 1/3000 of a second, so with a shutter time of 1/2500, the camera sees all of the flash, but not all that much sun.

You can get some decent shots with the P/S. My advice... get closer.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: some stoke from vermont
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2012, 07:31:48 pm »
The composition with the more distant rider was intentional, intended to show the larger forest environment and the small rider within (not to get too profound about it).  Most of my other shots are of the rider in closer proximity.

But composition is a personal matter, and as I mentioned, the quality of shots taken on a sunny day in the middle of the woods is really what is stumping me.  The scenes just do not come out right.  Very harsh contrast, poor colour saturation, poor details in highlights and shadows.  Most unappealing....

Having a pro-level camera sure seems to help, with the bigger sensor collecting just that much more information.  You can see the depth of colour in your pics is so much better.  I will have to play with the programming settings on my pocket camera to see if I can adjust the contrast range or something like that.  I am a former film guy, avid B&W fine print photographer, and had my own darkroom (before kids).  This digital stuff is still somewhat of an enigma as to how to control it.  The Zone System? Piece of cake! Digital sensors? Er, not so clued in....

Nice work, Epic.  I enjoyed looking at those.