Author Topic: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires  (Read 1645 times)

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2012, 08:47:51 am »
I moved the following post to a new thread (http://www.realskiers.smfnew.com/index.php/topic,2129.msg19412.html#msg19412), not wanting to drift too far from Jim's original post.  Please reply in the other thread.

Jim -- sorry for the thread drift.  ::)

Back to Reynolds bike frames for a moment, and some feedback from Liam and Josh, if possible....

I happened upon what seems like a pretty good deal on a brand new frameset of a Jamis Dragon 29er, 2009 model.  Price is ~$425, which is about 1/3 of list.  Full lifetime warranty on the frame.  Online reviews of this bike are good, at least of the ride quality.  Complaints seem to be only about components, but then I am buying only the frame, so this is not relevant.

Question is.....is this a good bike? A good brand? Jamis is little known up here in Canada, so I don't know their reputation.  You just don't see them around much, except their lower end stuff in the big box sports stores.

The specs look OK on the frame:  Reynolds 853 steel main tubes; chromoly stays; 72 deg. HTA (steeper than my present bike, which is OK, but maybe too twitchy?); 74 deg. STA; 17.72"/450mm chainstay (not bad, could be shorter; still a good climber?).

I am thinking of either stripping all the parts off my Paragon and selling the frame, or just slowly acquiring new parts for the Jamis when they come on sale and building up the frame from scratch, then selling the complete Paragon.  The advantage of the latter is that I can add what I want -- UST wheels, 2x10 drivetrain, etc..  Disadvantage of this is the cost -- adding everything up may equal the cost of a complete bike.

Any thoughts, guys?

« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 12:56:46 pm by Svend »

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2012, 06:37:50 pm »
Jim have you actually ridden this bike on singletrack yet?

meput

  • 1 Year Member
  • 200 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 205
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2012, 07:01:00 pm »
Back to road tubeless. Interesting review of American Classic tubeless road wheelset: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=10480&status=True&catname=Latest%20News

Price for the weight is very good. Lighter than most carbon wheels with aluminum breaking characteristics. Lynn, these would be good climbing wheels for the lurking hill rabbit that is in you  :D.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2012, 09:06:14 am »
Wow.  Lot's of good information -> which leads to lots of questions.

So you've been running full UST mtb "mostly dry" since 2004 with no flats? Verrry interesting.  What's your plan if you do have a flat? Hutchinson's??

How do you like the 7800's?  And good to hear that you are running them dry. What do you weigh and what pressures do you use?  I'm considering a pair of 7900-c24's and am trying to decide between the Fusion 3 and the Maxxis Padrone. Any thoughts? Any history of flats with the Fusion 2's, or any experience with the Hutchinson Rep'Air?

Thanks for the review information on the Hutchinson sealant. Does the Hutchinson sealant really last two years? 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 09:40:12 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2012, 09:41:57 am »
Good post Epic, and welcome to our forum!

In my own wheels I run full UST though I've dabbled with a little bit of TLR. I mostly run them dry though I have one 819 that won't seal without a little dab of juice for the bead.

This comment stirred up a question for me too.... I have TLR wheels on my mtn. bike, and want to go tubeless with the least fuss and maintenance possible.  I am thinking that I can use UST tires mounted with just enough sealant to seal the bead, and that's all.  Especially if I use a sealant like Hutchinson, I am hoping I can basically set it and forget it.  Is this going to work? What has your experience been with TLR wheels?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:29:45 am by Svend »

epic

  • Instructor
  • <100 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2012, 12:56:33 pm »
So you've been running full UST mtb "mostly dry" since 2004 with no flats? Verrry interesting.  What's your plan if you do have a flat? Hutchinson's??

I used to carry a tube and a CO2. Theory was that if I had a flat, I'd pull the UST valve, put in teh tube and be on my way. After a few years of giving away tubes to flatted companions and never needing one myself I've stopped carrying the tube. Now I just shrug and say "good luck".  :o For myself, I carry a Hutchinson Tubelees Patchkit box is big enough to hold extra brake pads and retaining pin, one SRAM quicklink, and a couple of zipties too. I could use this to repair a large hole. I also have a 16g CO2 and a Huntchinson Fast'Air. If I had a puncture and stopped without losing the bead, I'd just use the Fast'Air. If I had a large hole, I'd pull one bead (or at least try to keep the other one) repair hole w patchkit, and then inflate w CO2. Fast'Air would then be my failsafe. On longer rides, I've carried more Fast'Airs and or CO2s. I wouldn't want to have just the one, because if I had trouble getting the bead on the first shot, I'd like to have a 2nd chance.

btw: I take back the no flats thing. I have had one on my DH bike. Skidded across a nail when a guy crashed in front of me on a wooden structure. Tore a 6" long gash in the tire. Nothing would have prevented that or repaired it tubes or no.

As for pressures in the D/A wheels, I am 200 lbs and just got back from a ride at 80 front 90 rear. I'm still conditioned to go for 100 psi and it feels weird to stop pumping before I get there. A few years ago, I was riding with a friend and we were talking in the parking lot as we got ready. We did a 70 mile ride. About halfway through the ride, I felt the rim touch the ground on a bump and realized that I had only pumped up the front tire. When we got back I checked, and I was only at 45 psi on the rear. I barely noticed. This ride was 50% dirt roads, btw.

I used a Fast'Air once on my first set of road tires. I got a puncture at the halfway point of a century ride. Shot in a Fast'Air and never touched the tire again until I took it off due to wear. Another cool thing about it was how slowly it went down. I heard it going "psssh" each revolution and had tons of time to pull over and fix it. The tire never even really had a chance to get very soft.

As for the Padrones, I have no opinion. If I were getting new tires today, I'd probably do just Fusion3s or Intensives (to get the extra width).

Now as far as TLR wheelsets go, all of mine have been UST. TLR rims come in different flavors. To my knowledge, there is no standard for what constitutes a TLR rim. With UST you have a sealed rim-bed and a bead of a particular shape. UST is a certification. Somebody could make a UST rim and not get it certified and it wouldn't be UST. So for example Fulcrum and Campy's 2-Way Fit rims are for all intents and purposes UST rims and can be treated as such, but are not UST certified.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #66 on: June 18, 2012, 01:28:09 pm »
Now as far as TLR wheelsets go, all of mine have been UST. TLR rims come in different flavors. To my knowledge, there is no standard for what constitutes a TLR rim. With UST you have a sealed rim-bed and a bead of a particular shape. UST is a certification. Somebody could make a UST rim and not get it certified and it wouldn't be UST. So for example Fulcrum and Campy's 2-Way Fit rims are for all intents and purposes UST rims and can be treated as such, but are not UST certified.

Hmmm...interesting.  I guess I should just try it -- put a UST tire on the rim, pump it up and see if it catches and holds air.  If not, just add some Hutchinson sealant.  FWIW, I have Bontrager Rhythm Comp TLR 29er wheels.  I haven't found any comments on the web from people who've run this wheel as a true UST.

Have you ever tried Geax Tubeless Therapy sealant? It looks like a similar product to the Hutchinson stuff.  Claimed to last 2 years.

Cheers!

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #67 on: June 18, 2012, 06:50:51 pm »
The main issue with 29er right now is the lack of UST tires. I would run one on the rear of my SS if one existed with a good tread. that bike is eating some burly tubeless ready tires that get mounted on the rear.

I normally get my tube back at the end of a ride. I called it the tube of running tubed tires shame. Wish I had a tire as tough as the 26 inch UST I use to run.

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #68 on: June 18, 2012, 08:58:45 pm »
Josh -- I hear you.  I did some checking of the manufacturer's sites tonight, and true UST tires in a tread pattern that would work for me are not exactly numerous.  In fact, I found exactly....nothing  ???  So much for that idea  ::).  I guess I'm stuck with tubeless ready tires and sealant.  Geax TNT tires seem like they are as close to UST as any.  I will try them first and see how it works out.  With any luck, they will work dry with the Bonty TLR rims, although I am not optimistic.

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2012, 04:40:27 am »
I have some Geax TNT AKA on their way. If they are anything like the other Geax I am sure they grip great and roll fast.

I shreded a non TNT Gato on the rear of my SS the other day. If you saw how I did I totally blame me, but can not help to think a UST tire would have survived.


Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2012, 05:28:13 am »
I heard the AKA is a great dry-season tire.  Let me know how that works out for you, and how it performs. 

I am impressed with Geax.  They seem to wear well, in addition to having great performance.  I recently put a Saguaro on the back of my daughter's bike, replacing an Ignitor, and she noticed a difference in rolling resistance immediately. 

Are you going to try mounting the TNT AKA dry? Or will you still need sealant for your wheels? (ie. non-TLR?)


bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2012, 05:56:01 am »
yeah it will need sealant, which like "I run dry" himself(epic) says is not such a big deal.

My dry race set up is going to be 2.25 ardent up front and 2.2 AKA TNT rear. I might even try to totally weight weenie out and go AKA front Mezcal rear.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:29:41 am by jim-ratliff »

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2012, 08:36:09 am »
The main issue with 29er right now is the lack of UST tires. I would run one on the rear of my SS if one existed with a good tread. that bike is eating some burly tubeless ready tires that get mounted on the rear.

I normally get my tube back at the end of a ride. I called it the tube of running tubed tires shame. Wish I had a tire as tough as the 26 inch UST I use to run.

You haven't tried the Ardent 2.25 LUST 29er yet?  I'm told it's bombproof (true UST 29er...one of the very few).  I haven't had any trouble with the regular ardents so I haven't bothered with the UST version...but it certainly catches my interest.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
A definitive discussion / review of sealants
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2012, 02:58:48 pm »

An excellent overview of the various sealants from the Slowtwitch Tri-athlete site.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Tire_Sealants_2765.html


My goal, I think, is to be like Epic   ;D   Ride dry and count on Fast'Air to seal the flat if/when it happens.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 03:08:56 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2012, 06:18:26 pm »
if you run full UST it should be easy.