Author Topic: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires  (Read 1645 times)

Svend

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2012, 08:10:59 am »
Hey Lynn -- sounds like a sweet ride.  Ti frame, no less.....very nice.  I gotta say, as much as I love my mtn. bike, if I could change only one thing about it, it would be a Ti or Reynolds steel frame.  There's something about the feel of a bike frame made from those, that aluminum just can't beat.

On the subject of tires, here's one for Jim, who is never far from his Android:
http://www.geax.com/download/app/


midwif

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2012, 12:07:40 pm »
Meput: I never let lack of knowledge restrain my posting, so feel free to post away. I'm curious though, do you use Stan's in your tubeless mtn bike tires?  What about Stan's in your car tires?  I'm skeptical of the value of comparing car and bike tires. But I also remember a time when car tubeless were much more prone to flats and tubeless plugs.

What is your opinion of road tubeless??

Lynn's Bike - 8 year old GT Titanium frame, Dura-Ace components, Zipp 404 carbon clincher wheels, Michelin or Continental 4000s tires.

Slight! Correction.
My bike is 15 years old at least. Still working, a little worse for wear looking.

Meput, you are absolutely right. Technology has progressed and tubulars on road bikes may be light years ahead of the old sew ups.
I should be open, because yours truly NEVER LEARNED TO CHANGE HER OWN G*d D*mn tires!
Sad, but true. Especially with the clinchers. And certain men in my life tried their best!

Tubless road tires might be in the future. And you ARE a lucky man to get such a spiffy set of rims.

L.
"Play it Sam"

Svend

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2012, 12:52:54 pm »
Lynn, who cares how old it is.  Ti frames are still coveted as being a superior material.  Expensive, but excellent characteristics for frame building. 

Besides, beautiful bicycles have been around for decades, and are still being ridden and enjoyed today.  Who says old is not beautiful?  A friend of mine has a gorgeous, hand made in Italy, Basso Brothers road bike.  Campagnolo drivetrain, thin and elegant Chromoly frame, wonderful paintwork -- the bike is light and strong and wicked fast.  The frame build is a work of art.  He rides a Century on it every summer, and kicks the butts of his teammates riding shiny new carbon rigs.  Such a bike is a classic.  Like an old Jaguar E-type or 1960's Porsche 911, it will never look out of style and gives the impression that it was born to fly.

For anyone interested in craftsmanship vs. mass production in the world of bicycle making, I would highly recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Its-All-About-Bike-Happiness/dp/1608195384/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1314641677&sr=1-1

If anyone recalls, I posted a review of it here:  http://www.realskiers.smfnew.com/index.php/topic,1894.0.html

When you finish reading it, you may be rethinking your ideas of what constitutes a really good bicycle.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:01:59 pm by Svend »

jim-ratliff

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2012, 01:15:39 pm »

Not Lynn's bike, but the GT Edge model, minus the decals, and her's has a carbon fork.


"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2012, 01:37:50 pm »
Sweet! Looks like it would be a hill-killer.  A climbing beast (and I mean that in the good sense), with the rear wheel tucked in tight under the seat like that.  Jim, when you ride with Lynn and hit the hills, do I need to guess from which aspect you would most likely be viewing the lady and her bike?

GT used (or maybe still does) that frame design on their hard tail Zaskar mtn. bikes.  Supposedly this gave them fantastic stiffness (too stiff, apparently, for the aluminum versions, which was a punishingly harsh ride; but not so for the Ti builds) and great climbing ability.  Time proven GT design.

Nice bike, Lynn!


jim-ratliff

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2012, 02:03:25 pm »
Jim, when you ride with Lynn and hit the hills, do I need to guess from which aspect you would most likely be viewing the lady and her bike?

I think you would probably guess correctly.  My bike is actually lighter than hers, but my body is 50% heavier and doesn't make 50% more power.  'Nuf said?  When we get to the hills, the Lynn/Bike combo are a beast!! (and I too mean that in a good sense).


But I also have to admit that drafting her up-hill has it's advantages, over and above that she's better than me at setting and maintaining a sustainable pace up-hill.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

meput

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2012, 03:36:06 pm »
Jim: I have followed road tubeless wheels/tires with some interest. Other riders, that I trust, find them on a par with good clincher wheels with an open clincher tire. Due to few manufacturers for the wheels and basically only Hutchinson for the tires, I am afraid the technology and development may die due to rider apathy.

Lynn: Glad the bike picture that Jim posted is not your bike. If it was, your bike fitter needs to be shot  :D or you have grown (a lot) since I last saw you  :o.

Changing a tubular on the road is much simpler than changing a clincher tire. Just rip the old one off, put the the new one on with the rim tape oriented to the rim and inflate. Old glue and the tire pressure will hold on the tire to get you home. Just plan to slow down for any corners so you do not roll the tire  :-\.

Svend: I agree that a well made Ti or steel tubed frame can be a work of art. Richard Sachs, Tom Kellogg, Dario Pegoretti and many others make truly beautiful bikes. Even semi-custom bikes by Seven and Independent Fab can be great bikes. I would love to find a California built Masi Gran Criterium from ~'80 in my frame size (remember the movie "Breaking Away"?) I do have a Trek from that era that I had made up for me with Reynold's 531 fully double butted. Nice bike but nothing special (should have spent the couple hundred dollars more for the Masi and had a classic -my bad).

Jim: Where is your man-pride? How can you let Lynn beat you to the top of hills? Although your comment about drafting her up a hill does make some sense. I am on record as saying "I have never found a wheel that I will not suck!" I suspect if you found someone a little bit bigger, the wheel sucking would be better (speaking of getting up the hill, not necessarily the scenery). Just find the bike and rider of the photo you posted, that would be a nice wheel to suck  ;D.

Svend

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2012, 06:06:47 am »
Jim2 -- the custom frame fitting and building process described in the book that I mentioned is fascinating.  Small family shop in England, personal service.  Everything starts with a road test to see how the rider moves and interacts with the bike.  After that, it's half engineering and half Jedi intuition, it seems, to get a perfect fit.  The chapter on visiting the wheel builder in California is equally interesting.

I have heard of Richard Sachs, but not the others.  Will check them out.  Independent Fab....I think Gary's good friend has a Ti mtn. bike made by them.  Very nice rig.  I took it for a little spin, and was impressed.  Very responsive, agile, instant connection bet. pedal and wheel.

Like you, I regret not waiting a year, putting a few more dollars in the piggy bank, and getting a REAL mtn. bike.  As much as I love my 29er (Fischer Paragon, '09), if I were to do it again, I would get a Ti or Reynolds frame, made in North America, not mass produced in China.  Whether I would go custom or std. cut, I'm not sure.  Moots is a company I would look at.  Niner makes some nice rigs too, but not in Ti.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2012, 09:45:08 am »
Jim: Where is your man-pride? How can you let Lynn beat you to the top of hills? Although your comment about drafting her up a hill does make some sense. I am on record as saying "I have never found a wheel that I will not suck!" I suspect if you found someone a little bit bigger, the wheel sucking would be better (speaking of getting up the hill, not necessarily the scenery). Just find the bike and rider of the photo you posted, that would be a nice wheel to suck  ;D .


OK, I guess I have to confess that the scenery makes it easy to subjugate my pride.
The interesting race is to the bottom of the hills. On my side is weight and gravity, on her side is a smaller profile cross section and those damn Zipp wheels (above 18 or so they really make a difference). 


More seriously, in order to draft Lynn I have to be down in the drops when she is on the handlebars, and when she drops down there's no way I can stay in her wind shadow.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

meput

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2012, 12:18:41 pm »
Svend: If my memory banks serve me, Moots was doing mountain bikes before road bikes. Seven and Ind Fab each do beautiful work on road bikes, no knowledge re: mtn bikes.

Tom Kellogg is Spectrum Bikes. Dario Pegoretti is over in Italy.

Jim: Does Lynn's Zipp's have ceramic hub bearings? I ride with a couple of guys who recently got ceramic bearing hubs/wheels and their descending speed has significantly increased. The 404's do have a slight aerodynamic advantage over a shallower rim, but I suspect she may have an aerodynamic advantage over you by less frontal area than yourself.

Subjugate. I like the word, makes you sound very erudite  ::).

Svend

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2012, 02:12:37 pm »
Subjugate. I like the word, makes you sound very erudite  ::).

I'm sure it's because Jim eat Alpha-Bits for breakfast every day.   ;)

Jim2 -- I just did a quick, but not exhaustive, check of some major US and Canadian bike makers websites, and it looks like only Marin and GT are still offering frames made from Ti, and those are only for mtn. bikes.  GT does not show Lynn's Ti frame as a current model.  After that, it's the smaller makers and custom shops.  But at least it shows that there is still a market for Ti bikes, if a rather small one.  The prices would certainly deter most -- frames alone list for $2200, $2900, and up.  Chromoly/Reynolds, OTOH, are slightly more common -- Jamis, Marin, Niner, etc. still making Chromoly or Reynolds frames.  They are less expensive, but with the obvious weight penalty.  I will have to check around where I live to see if there are any custom frame builders here.  With so many Italians in Toronto (2nd largest Italian city in the world, apparently), there has got to be a little shop with a craft frame builder somewhere around here.

My biggest complaint with my bike, is that the rear triangle feels too flexy, and does not seem to transmit pedal power efficiently to the wheel.  I can almost feel it bending and flexing when I step on the gas pedal and really crank it hard.  Not sure if this has anything to do with it being an aluminum frame, or just the design and build of that part of the frame.  But when I get on my 24-year-old steel frame bike, or Gary's friend's Ti bike, the difference is marked.  Much better acceleration and response, and I miss it.  It's not time to go shopping yet, but one of these years I'll be on the hunt. 



« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 02:24:48 pm by Svend »

bushwacka

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2012, 06:02:29 am »
for how pretty I think Ti bikes are heck I think that GT is drop dead sexy. I have found that compared to steel that they tend to be heavier for the same stiffness and/or more flexy.

I have ridden the Salsa Selme ti and felt its was too flexy although very complaint, it still was not light for sure not as light as the old scadium/carbon first gen selma's.

Steel on the other hand, I have a  mass produced cheap steel frame. it light for the price, and IMO way stiffer where it needs to be well still having the magic carpet like steel ride. The only hardtails I have liked better than the redline are the Niner steel bikes(SIR and MCR), the Old salsa Selma/mamista, the Niner Air Nine carbon , the giant XTC 29er carbon, and my next potential SS bike the Kona Honzo(game changing bike though due to its progressive geo). For how much I would love a boutique steel frame from Hubcup, spot,, elect the cost is absurdly high and IMO not any more value than the mass produced frames. I can build a whole carbon bike for the cost of a frame in many cases and trust me carbon is the best material (short term) for making a bike out of.

midwif

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2012, 09:24:48 am »
Clearly, I should have been less cavalier with my bike!
It does not look nearly as nice as the one in the picture.

Guys, remember, all speeds are relative. As is beastliness :P
I aspire to be more beastly. ;D

I have always been a poor hill rider, IMO. Slow, steady and determined is my pace.

As far as the zipp wheels, they are first generation zipp. They were my husbands racing wheels for flat triathlons.
I was considering selling them, but Jim convinced me to use them myself instead!

 Wonderful downhill and flat. Others give the bike admiring nods.
They are a **** to handle in crosswinds though.

But Jim thinks they look really sharp with the bike, and as you know Svend, Jim is all about fashion and style. ;)

I will post a picture later in the week so you can admire my middle-aged set up. 8)

Lynn
"Play it Sam"

meput

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2012, 07:12:00 pm »
I have always been a poor hill rider, IMO. Slow, steady and determined is my pace.
Gee Lynn, Jim has been implying that you are a rabbit up the hills, drafting you, etc.

What are your other wheels? Might be time to experiment with them for non competitive riding. Might also help going up hill. 404's are not thought of as a climbing wheel.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Jim (a non-racer) and tubeless MTB tires
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2012, 08:06:15 am »
Gee Lynn, Jim has been implying that you are a rabbit up the hills, drafting you, etc.

What are your other wheels? Might be time to experiment with them for non competitive riding. Might also help going up hill.
Meput:  But the Zipp's look so much better!  ::) 
B'sides, I never said she was a rabbit, only that she was faster than me!!  :o


Lynn couldn't keep up with her husband (a Nationally ranked tri-athlete) who lovingly suggested that she not try to climb Mt. Mansfield in VT.  She can't keep up with her son, or with the many good riders in Central Park going up the hill at the north end.
I'm sure we couldn't keep up with you, or with JBotti or Helluva or Bushwacka, but it's all about who you compare yourself with.
My guess is that she can't remember the last time she was passed by another 50 year old woman.

« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 02:28:21 pm by jim-ratliff »
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