Author Topic: My Arse is killing me  (Read 985 times)

byronm

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 01:32:56 am »
Thanks for the link Svend...I will definately explore the cyclocross option....yup, last bike sans a motor I straddled was a schwinn stingray with a banana seat. All the rave as were the fab four as I recall.
Judging by your comments, I may have midunderstood the salesman and need to make a trip back to the shop in order to process all the info....I looked at a bunch of bikes in a manner rem. of  the toddler I had with me asking what's this?..why?....how? etc.
I may be mistaken but thought I asked if the bike was a 29r to which he responded yes and went on to explain it would be good for intermediate trails, while road worthy also. (which may be just my ticket, not quite sure yet) He then showed me a dedicated mountain bike...much wider tires, etc. All this of course as I was eyeing and chasing a zealous grandkid hoping not to be purchasing a $2200 scratch and dent bike of any sort at that moment.

Before wearing out my welcome, I bought the aftermarket seat that although not high end, has proven invaluable to my low end.. ;D

Max provided a suggestion from the fezzari site in my price range that has a cool fitting procedure thru the purchase. Not sure if a valid concern, but does buying bikes direct (in general) bring into play the "some assembly required" issue, or do they arrive in a manner that a "you don't know jack" can manage?
Obviously, I need to continue exploring but in the meantime, I'm a peddling.
 
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 01:57:09 am by byronm »

Svend

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 06:14:02 am »
Byron, buying a bike online will require some assembly.  It will be delivered in a big flat box, which means the bars will be turned sideways, pedals and saddle will be off, wheels off, etc..  But setting it up is nothing major -- install pedals and saddle; set stem; adjust brake and shift levers.....that kind of thing.  If you are mechanically challenged, you might want  to take the time to learn about all this stuff, as you will be doing a lot of adjusting and tweaking to get the fit right.  And it is definitely worth the time to get it right.

So....consider buying from your local bike shop, as they can do all this for you and redo it if it doesn't suit you.  They will also (if they are a good shop) take the time to fit the bike correctly -- saddle position, stem length, bar height, etc..

Re. 29ers -- real ones are dedicated mountain bikes.  I ride mine on the road occasionally, but only when it's with friends or family who don't have mountain bikes.  It performs OK on the road, but the geometry, fit of the bike (shorter top tube length than a road bike), wide knobby tires, heavy front fork, etc., really don't lend themselves to road riding.  It is just not efficient, and way slower.  OTOH, if you are tall, ride 80% to 90% off road, esp. on open cross country trails, then a 29er would be the ticket.  If not, then you should consider a different bike.

My brother rides a cyclocross bike (a real one, not a comfort cruiser).  He rides 80% on road, 10% gravel rail trails, and 10% easy single track off road.  He loves it.  An extremely versatile bike.  I have ridden his bike on road, and it is fast and light and agile.  You would be amazed at what some people can do with these bikes off road.  I often see guys riding these on the smooth double track trails of our local forest, and just for a lark I have ridden some of the race courses set up in the park -- FUN!  A few of these videos will give you an idea of what kind of terrain they are made for:

http://www.cxmagazine.com/video-highlights-elite-women-2012-usa-cycling-cyclocross-nationals-bill-schieken
http://www.cxmagazine.com/videos-petitesreines-hoogerheide-french-nationals
http://www.cxmagazine.com/jeremy-powers-koksijde-course-preview-video-2012-cyclocross-world-championship

Cheers, and have fun in your hunt.

bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2012, 08:23:52 pm »
yeah 29er are capable mountain bikes. In fact I dare say more capable than the kids wheels if your tall enough to ride them.

26 inch XC bikes are dead, the demand is done for them. In a couple years all the major manufacturers will stop making them. 26inch trail bike will hang on longer but again in the larger sizes they will be dead.

the deal is a 29er hardtail can be ridden nearly anywhere, albeit quite slowly on road compared to anything else, and for alot of people on dirt road they usually are faster.

case in point, at the Hilly Billy Roubaix in Wv which is a 68 mile dirt road race the cross bike had their asses kicked by 2.0 tired MTBs. 8 of the top 10 were on a hardtail or fully rigid MTB running wider than most cross bike tires.  although I love cross bike and I think they can be right bike for alot of stuff it hard for me to see that they are faster than a 29er MTB even on pretty smooth dirt/gravel road. Larger tires roll faster off road and cross bike simply do not have the clearance for them.


Svend

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2012, 08:07:28 am »
BW -- I think Byron is looking for an 80/20 bike, as in 80% asphalt / 20% gravel rail trails and smooth doubletrack.  I still maintain that a 29er is not the right bike for this kind of mix, but a CX bike would be just right.

That said, I agree with what you say.  For riders tall enough, the 29er size is the ticket for a mtn. bike.  Very versatile and capable for both singletrack and flat gravel trails.  I don't think the 29er will ever replace the 26er though.  Smaller riders will just not ever be comfortable or properly proportioned on a 29er bike, no matter what they do with frame design.

But.....what is a really interesting development, and something I look forward too seeing growth in, is the 650B wheel size.  Now that is a size that makes sense to supplant the 26 inch wheel.  It has many of the advantages of both the 29ers and 26ers, and almost none of the drawbacks of either.  I have read some comparison tests, and it seems to work.  Nice.  I could see a smaller rider, like my wife at 5'7", for example, having a great time on a 650B hardtail XC bike.  I hope they catch on and we see more models and aftermarket components become available.


jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2012, 08:44:21 am »
Byron:
This got me to thinking.  You should probably also check out some rigid (i.e. no front suspension either) bikes, either 29" or 26". You would probably need to swap out the standard tires for something faster rolling and lighter, but that could wind up being a good compromise bike for your stated mix of road and dirt/gravel roads and easier trails.


26 vs. 29. My biggest reasons for not getting a 29" bike was that it didn't fit in the back of my car nearly as well as the 26", and it just didn't feel as nimble. Felt a little bit like driving a pickup truck vs. a car. I will agree that there are riders who will value the easier rolling of the 29" above all else, but I'm not sure that spells the death of the 26" bike.  I also wonder how much of the 29" market demand is like the market demand for wide skis (mostly driven by the "cool" factor and advertising)?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 03:21:35 pm by jim-ratliff »
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bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2012, 09:14:21 am »
Jim not fitting into your car is pretty much the worst reason ever.

Part of me does think that its the bike industries way of selling something new, but the other part of me realizes that if there was a demand for short travel/hardtail 26inch bikes more companies would keep making them.

BTW Scott bikes only 26inch wheeled mtbs next year are youth models and their DH bikes.

In stowe i am actually one of the few 29 inch riders and get alot of flack  for it, with that said the only 2 guys and one gal in stowe that are faster up and/or down than me are a Pro Cyclocross rider sometimes MTber (jamey Driscoll), Pro Road rider but also a MTber(Josh Dillen), and Pro going to Olympics MTBer(Lea Davison) and they all ride 29ers..... The girl is the fastest out of them all.

jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2012, 09:53:03 am »
Jim not fitting into your car is pretty much the worst reason ever.

Wrong.  It was the main requirement.  And it was what I wanted to do, so that makes it a perfectly good reason (for me). ;)
I wasn't going be hauling my bike to work on a bike rack on the roof of the car and leaving it in the parking garage all day, wasn't going to have $X,000 worth of bikes on the back of the car parked overnight on the streets of Washington, DC or New York City, and wasn't going to be hauling them through the road grime if I decided to drive some distance.  I know lots of people use bike racks and roof mounts, I wasn't going to.  At 60+ years old I never even considered the idea of lifting my bike off/on a roof rack at the beginning and end of every ride, and trunk racks just look like a good way to let one bike bang around and damage the other.
With my RAV4 or Lynn's Honda Element, we could put all 4 bikes in the back (we usually only have two) and still have room for luggage. My main reason for purchasing the RAV4 was because the spare tire is on the rear door resulting in a taller load area. (The other factor was the V6 engine in a smallish vehicle performs quite nicely.)
So, it may not be high on your criteria, but was on mine.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 03:20:38 pm by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2012, 10:57:24 am »

Bush:

What discipline is Lea competing in?
Give us a heads up if she is going to be on television.
Would be fun to watch someone "that Bushwacka had trained"!! (or at least raced against)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:22:51 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Svend

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2012, 02:12:07 pm »
Part of me does think that its the bike industries way of selling something new, but the other part of me realizes that if there was a demand for short travel/hardtail 26inch bikes more companies would keep making them.

BW -- I think the demand for hardtail/short travel bikes has shrunk because of the overall performance improvements in rear suspension designs.  When we were shopping for our bikes, which was as recent as 3 years ago, there were still a lot of drawbacks to rear suspension, and these were a significant disincentive to buying one.  Loss of power, poor acceleration; poor climbing ability; vague disconnected "trail feel"; much heavier weight; more maintenance; big price differential....all of these combined, when viewed next to a good hardtail in the eyes of buyers such as us (ie. located in an area where the trails were fairly smooth and easily rideable on a hardtail by a skilled pilot), it was a no-brainer.  The lighter, faster, cheaper, better spec'd hardtail won hands down.  And if you asked my wife today if she would trade in her little 26" hardtail XC race bike for a full-suspension rig, she would laugh and say "No way, Jose!".

These days it's a different story, however.  Prices are lower for rear susp. bikes, rear triangle designs have more or less eliminated the performance drains, the bikes are lighter, and the other components are not being scrimped on.  A rider like my wife may actually consider one if she took a really good model for a test ride.  OTOH, if she got on a quick, agile, light 650B hardtail, I'll bet she'd fall in love.   :D  So, if asked to replace her bike today, she would probably say no, and that she will wait a few years until the the 650B thing matures, and then look for a top-notch fast hardtail.  Makes perfect sense to me.

As for the bike industry trying to sell a particular design just because it's "new and better", well, I'm a bit cynical about that.  There is something to that statement.  A lot of people I talk to, including shop owners, are looking at all the new stuff with a raised eyebrow, and are frankly getting sick of it and are turned off by it all.  Every year there are different standards for bottom brackets, drivetrains, wheel sizes, headsets....and on and on..... All of them claim to be better.  No one is sure why we need some of it.  I think a lot of people are savvy to this, and will pick and choose the technology that really makes sense and is a true improvement, rather than the latest fad.  This may all backfire on the bike industry....we will see.  There will always be those insecure people who simply must have the newest and best, and will probably go broke trying to live to that standard.  But for the rest of us who just want to buy a great bike every 5 or 8 years, are willing to spend a not-insubstantial amount to get one, and then forget the technology and just have fun riding it, it's all more marketing babble and something that is best ignored until it's time for a new rig. 

I suppose the latter attitude comes with age and maturity.  I know a couple of guys in their late 50's and early 60's who live on the west coast (friends of my father-in-law) who still ride multi-day long distance endurance mountain bike races across the Rocky Mountains in the interior of British Columbia (starting in Whistler, and going inland from there).  They each have five or six mtn. and road bikes in their stable, including some very expensive carbon full-suspension rigs, and have owned dozens of bikes in their lifetime.  These guys are tough, experienced, expert riders, who were riding mtn. bikes when I was still in puberty, and you were probably not even born yet.  Well, I asked them what their favourite bikes where.  The younger guy pointed to a ten year old Kona scandium hard tail (Explosif, I think, white in colour) that had taken a good beating over it's life but was still going strong.  The other guy singled out a Marin hardtail, also scandium or maybe Ti (can't recall), about 5 to 7 years old.  The values they placed above all else were not speed (as in the fastest course times) or light weight or comfort; but rather agility and handling, quickness and acceleration, toughness, reliability and simplicity.  Basically they valued a fun bike that was simple to maintain and could take a beating.  They weren't wowed by full suspension or even 29ers.  But they can make these simple bikes do amazing things, and ride trails on them that I will never have the nerve to tackle in my lifetime.  As I said before, it's more about the skill of the rider, and less about the hardware.

Oh, and I asked them about tubeless.  They just laughed and said they couldn't be bothered.  Tried it; not worth the fuss for the marginal performance gains.  But they do value good tires with rugged tread and lots of sticky grip -- Nevegal (most popular tire by far in those parts), Ardent, Fire XC Pro....that sort of thing; or Ikon for smooth trails. 


bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2012, 02:36:14 pm »
Bush:

What discipline is Lea competing in?
Give us a heads up if she is going to be on television.
Would be fun to watch someone "that Bushwacka had trained"!! (or at least raced against)

we ride and race together some of the time. She routinely beats the men's pro field.....

she races XC the only MTB discipline in the olympics, she also does Short Track and Super D both of which are not in the olympics.

Svend there was some amazing good rear suspension designs 3 years ago. maestro, DW link, VPP, and the outliers of I drive, and Haros Unified rear triangle designs. The big companies tried and continue to produce some pretty poor Rear suspension designs.

maybe my trails are rougher but my FS bike is always faster than my SS bike. My ss has purpose and that is to be fun and make me stronger but not amount of skill makes up the difference of Hardtail to a FS if the FS rider is really good.

the performance returns on tubeless are not mariginal and untill you have tried it you have no leg to stand on to tell me otherwise. I do not care how good your friends are, but they are closed minded. these guys have not rode a bike with tubeless tires because if they did there is no way they would ever go back.

tubeless tires with tubeless rim what fuss? none! it easier to mount than a tubed tire



 

Svend

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2012, 04:36:35 pm »
Josh, we didn't see many of those kinds of bikes in the shops here until we found some smaller, hard core shops in the city that carried some of the more esoteric brands.  Most shops that we checked out (and there were many) had the usual big brands -- Specialized, Trek, GT, Cannondale, etc.  The smaller shops out in the country towns carried Kona, Rocky, DeVinci.  But bikes like Santa Cruz, Ibis, etc., were hard to find, and if available, were way too expensive.  At the time, the Canadian dollar was worth 30% less than US, so anything imported was pricey, so the shops mostly carried the big recognizable brands that they thought would sell.  Canadian-made bikes sold well, and were priced better -- Rocky, Brodie, DeVinci, Opus, Norco -- and were often better made for the same price.

Things are different now, with more choice and variety.  It's all good....

As for tubeless and the West Coast guys -- I think you misunderstood my message.  I was just passing on their opinions, not busting on yours or stating my own opinion.  I have not tried it, so I have no opinion, but just listen to other's experiences at this point.  But hey, it works for you, and you are willing to take the time to make it work.  OTOH, for those guys, it is just not the thing, and I respect that too.  And why wouldn't I? These guys do multi-day back country big mountain rides and need gear that works and that they can rely on.  If they say something, I listen and learn.  These guys are constantly experimenting with gear, BTW, and swapping stems and cranks and pedals and tires every week to try something different.  For you to say they are closed-minded is just not on.  If you read my post again, I said that they tried it, but didn't think it was worth it for whatever reason.  They didn't explain.  So there is no need for you to get defensive about your position.  To each his own.

Another thing I would add about the West Coast guys, is that they are humble, quiet and never boastful.  They do stuff, at age 60 no less, that would make most men half their age cry after only an hour.  And they do it for days at a time, and train for it every day in between.  But you would never know it unless you asked them outright, that's how modest they are.  And for that, I respect and like them even more.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 09:36:47 pm by Svend »

bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2012, 04:45:59 pm »
modesty and not being boastful never made someone right or wrong. In fact I am not being boastful, I am not a good enough rider to ride MTBs with tubes in them. seriously I feel like a drunk gorilla when I get on someone over inflated tubed setup.

I also never respect someone making a choice and saying it not worth and to much fuss WITHOUT ever trying it. I can install a tubeless tire on tubeless rims in half the time it take to install a tube and tire on the rim.

are you sure they tried it? seriously I have not met a single person who has tried it and went back.

Svend

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2012, 09:41:31 pm »
Josh, apologies for the jab.  I removed the offending reference from my post.  You are right - in the last few responses to me you were not being boastful.


jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2012, 11:31:17 pm »
Josh:
it sounds to me that Svend's friends are experienced enough to decide what works best for them. Tubeless MTB isn't new, so I can't imagine dedicated riders/racers not giving it a solid try and being aware of any fellow racers using tubeless and improving because of it.


I understand your take and how it applies to your riding and where you ride. But that doesn't make it a universal absolute, nor does it lessen their riding in any sense.  Competitive racing is a wonderful crucible for what works. If even half of their fellow riders are riding tubeless and beating them, then they would already be riding tubeless as well.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:43:30 pm by jim-ratliff »
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