Author Topic: My Arse is killing me  (Read 985 times)

byronm

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My Arse is killing me
« on: May 02, 2012, 09:30:06 am »
New to bike riding. Bought a used cheap Schwinn mountain bike until I figure out what I need/want.

Trying to get back in shape for next years ski season and perhaps get into biking a bit.

Have been taking short rides and my coccyx is really hurting.

Advice in terms of seat options or adjustments that will help?

Advice on a reasonably priced yet solid entry level bike....most of my riding I am sure will be on pavement but
may do a little off roading?

Thx in advance.....

 
 
 


jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 12:12:41 pm »


Byron:

When you are on the bike, what does it feel like you are sitting on. You should be sitting on your sit bones (midwif could rattle off the medical term) just as you do when sitting on a hard chair. If you are sitting on your coccyx, then the seat is too narrow and/or you are too far forward and/or the seat itself is too soft and letting your sit bones sink down too far until your coccyx comes into contact with the seat?
I have bought all my bikes at Performance Bicycle, but don't know if you have stores in your area or not.  In my opinion, they are better value than the standard bike shops that all carry Trek or Specialized.  However, I also don't buy at the "street price",  the always present  markdowns from "list price". Everything I have bought has been a prior year model, usually marked down 50% or better, and even that price can be negotiated. 
For where you are now, I think one of their store brands would be a good option.
In my mind there are road bikes, mountain bikes (front susp or full suspension), and cross bikes.
Sounds like you don't want a road bike, but take some test rides on the others (just like demoing skis before buying).
Seats are an individual thing.  I have a Selle SMP Extra on my mountain bike, and a Specialized Ronin. Both have cutouts in the middle and concave profile to keep the pressure on the sit bones rather than on the other parts.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

LivingProof

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 05:29:31 pm »
Byron,

Setting up a mountain bike can be a little tricky as you ride in a more upright position. How did you set up your seat height? It's very possible that it's too low, causing too much of your weight to remain on the saddle, and, it will also be very hard on yournees. The seat height should be high enough to just permit some flexing in your knee when the pedal is in the max. downward position. It's also possible that the frame is too small, you can usually find the frame length on the seat tube, something like 17 or 19 inches. Find that number and also measure your inseam as that's a key for determining frame size.

There are plenty of sites on the net about how to set up a bike, and, of course, your local bike shop (LBS) can give you some advice. You never want to pedal with all your weight sitting on the seat, the legs and arms should carry some weight. Many LBS's will let you demo a saddle, usually for free ( new ones can cost as much as a new bike).

Cheap Mtn. bikes can be very heavy and due to the tire thickness, they can require a lot of wasted energy to ride. At least that's what my body tells me whenever I try to ride one. Standard saddles are generally not a lot of fun and they are the first thing changed out.

byronm

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 09:30:36 pm »
thx for the replies folks
Ok...the frame is 19" and my inseam is 32". I didn't really know anything about set up so I basically adjusted the seat so that the ball with one foot off could touch comfortably. During rides, I basically stopped several times adjusted the seat up and down at one inch intervals to try  and get the pressure off my tailbone. I was unsucessful and ended up switching bikes with my better half who has a single  speed cruiser with a "traditional" saddle type seat. Obviously those type of seats don't lend themselves to performance and are more for neighborhood riding, but it was like sitting on a pillow compared to the other bike.
LP..We do have a local bike shop in town. I will stop in there and test drive a few seats and bikes if allowed.
Jim...I also looked up Performance Bike and they do have some stores near phx. which I can check out too.
Max...thx for the link....It seems as if the fella in the "correct" position would actually need to slide off of the seat to ground his feet (or am I looking at it wrong?) At any rate, my adjustments were made based on touching ground from a seated position which seems to be wrong turn number uno.
As I am just getting into this...I reckon my budget will allow for something "somewhere" in between the off the rack wallyworld and the custom frame, liftable with two fingers versions from specialty shops. Extreme parameters at this point I know. So many choices between Mt./Road/Hybrid.
Definately illustrates the point about test drives to first determine bike type and subsequent fit.
Thx folks....I will keep you updated.
 
 
 
 

bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 10:48:39 am »
First even my anogenital distance hurts the first couple rides of the year, there is no way around that IMO as it gets conditions

You should adjust the seat so your legs are slightly bent when they are at the downstroke. On most Mountain bike you feet will not be able to hit the ground while seated. mine certainly can not. IF I am putting a foot down I either get off to front or dismount like I was in a cyclo cross race. I know that sounds scary but just leatn to get off the saddle and you will be fine.

After that is right make sure the weight is on your hands and feet. Very little of my weight is on my butt while riding any of my bikes. the saddle stabilizes you body but you do not rest on it. This is something most people do not know but clipless pedals will take away alot of pressure from your butt because they let you pedal more effectively.

next bike shorts! After trying everything I only wear bib shorts. High end bib shorts because well it matters.

Lastly Chamois creme or cheap substitutes like vasoline and diaper rash creme. My 2 favorites are DZ Nutz and Doctor Boudeux Butt paste. I use them for any ride over 2 hours or if it raining. rain can drive alot of grit down there and causing some painful chafing but with chamois creme its a non issue.

meput

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 05:13:37 pm »
Byron,
Everyone is giving you good advise. BW's comment about he is sore at the beginning of each cycling season is very true. It usually takes about 3 weeks for my bottom to get acclimated to my bike saddle each season (sorry). Bike saddles do wear out. What used to be good does wear out and becomes bad. Old leather saddles (Brooks, Ideal, etc.) had the ability to be tightened leading to a longer life. Newer synthetic saddles have a limited life. Maximum I have had a newer saddle last is about 5 years.

For a new bike, figure out whether you want to ride on the road or off road. A cross bike is kind of like HelavaSkiers comment regarding all mountain ski equipment: "All-Mountain: A common descriptive term for boots or skis that are designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain." I have ridden with many riders on a cross bike that use it primarily on the road and are very frustrated for that purpose. I am a newbie to mtn biking, but I suspect attempting to use a cross bike for off road use would be equally frustrating.

A properly fit bike will not let you put your feet on the round while you are on the saddle. The only bikes that will allow this are recumbents and some beach cruisers.

I agree with BW regarding bike shorts and nut butter. Your kids may be embarrassed that you are in spandex, but your body will thank you. Do not re-use a pair of shorts without washing them first. Sweat and bacteria from your skin will come back to haunt you (a boil on the tender areas are no fun). Most chamois butter has some degree of antiseptic function. I like Assos chamois cream. Use it for even short rides (1 hour).

Local bike clubs are a great resource. They can help with figuring out whether you want to ride on the road or off road. Go on a beginner ride for road and mountain bike. See which you enjoy more. Club riders can help on service and buying advice. May even be able to find  you a used bike that would be appropriate size and type.

Just like skiing, enjoy the journey as you get more accomplished in the biking world.


bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 05:39:53 pm »
the thing is this on the bike.

I do not know your budget but here goes.

You riding description - pavement with alittle bit of off road.

the problem with that is this. Nothing that rides pavement fast is good on singletrack if by off road you mean gravel road and REALLY smooth doubletrack dirt a cross bike could very well work.

With that said. Cross bikes when stock are not as fast as road, are extremely hard to ride on singletrack especially for newbies. the canti levers brakes SUCK (thanks goodness for disc brakes finally making the market shift)they are made for cross racing but also make great gravel road bikes, and commuters.

For pavement road bikes are the best but utterly helpless on anything loose or off road.

for off road MTBs are best. If you can afford one their is no reason not to get a Full suspension bike, unless you like added challenge and taking a pounding. People will argue that riding one makes you "a better riders" I would argue it make you better at riding a hardtail which is way different than how you ride a FS bike. I own a hardtail and Full suspension bike and would never recommend a hardtail  to a newbie that can afford a FS bike. Even on the smoothest of trails the FS bike is faster at least for me.

meput

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 06:06:44 pm »
Cross bikes when stock are not as fast as road, are extremely hard to ride on singletrack especially for newbies. the canti levers brakes SUCK (thanks goodness for disc brakes finally making the market shift)they are made for cross racing but also make great gravel road bikes, and commuters.

BW is referring to a cyclo-cross bike which is the original "off road" bike. Cyclocross racing is real big in Belgium and is gaining traction here in the US. It is basically a road bike with fork clearance for 32 - 35 mm tires, cantilever brakes to shed mud, drop handlebars.

A "cross" bike is a no-where bike between a road bike and a mtn bike. It has flat / shaped-flat handle bars, a front suspension fork, 28 -32 mm tires with non aggressive tread pattern, up right cruiser geometry usually with a cushion saddle. Use is for rail trails, gravel roads and commuters that may encounter pot holes under puddles when commuting in the rain.

bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 08:02:42 pm »
luckily disc brakes are starting to become way more avaliable for CX and road bikes since rim brakes make no sense at all from any stand point.

meput

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 07:58:00 am »
BW, I'll let you lug around the extra weight of a disc brake set up on your road bike. My rim brakes work just fine on my road bike even when I use my carbon wheels and they are wet (which means it is raining hard and I am pissed off about getting caught out in hard rain again  :-X). Agree about disc brakes on a cyclo-cross bikes where mud often is an issue.

bushwacka

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 09:06:01 am »
this is getting off topic but I love shoving my progressive ideas a t people :P :) because in due time I am always proven right.

The thing is if you think your rim brakes enough think about like it this. There are decents that can blow up carbon rim and if you were racing someone on disc brakes the real difference in braking is in modulation not in power. The ability to threshold brake is going to give riders a huge advantage dive bombing turns in technical decents and taking tighter lines in crits.

also there will be no extra weight. The wheels can be much lighter since they no longer have to support being clamped together by brakes. Just look at Disc MTB wheelset they ARE much lighter than most road wheelset and if they did not have to stand up to MTBing they would be lighter still. Also hydro lines are lighter than cables lines and disc brake calipers are just as heavy as rim brake calipers, lastly you do not need 160mm rotors but only 140mm rotors.

gone our the days off BB7 roads and tektro piece of crap cable pull road disc brake, by next year Shimano, SRAM, and formula will all have brifters that support hydro disc brakes.


Rim brakes are dead in 5 years from all forms of cycling except for retro grouches and people who are not willing to spend money. Just look back 5 years on my post on epic ski and TGR and you will see I am always ahead of the curve.

jim-ratliff

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 09:36:10 am »



I'm not always proven right like the humble Mr. BW, but I would gladly lug around whatever extra weight is necessary in order to have the hydro braking on my road bike that I have with my XT brakes.  The stopping power, modulation, and one finger light touch are amazing.  And I too have heard that the revolution in braking is coming.
Interestingly, one of the issues is redesigning the angles associated with how the axle of the front wheel (or maybe both) sits in the fork.  Disk brakes on current road bikes would tend to pull the axle out of the fork (I don't have the mechanical undertanding of why).
Even if the weight winds up being the same, some of the trade-off is rotating braking surface way out on the rim of the wheel versus disk brake surface much closer to the center of rotation, so much less rotational inertia. I'm just sad that they probably won't be retrofittable to current bikes.
The weight comparison, however doesn't stand up.  Getting a 1600 gram road bike wheelset is much cheaper than getting a 1600 gram mountain bike setup (in the range of $300 vs $700).  The mere volume of material works against the mtb here, in addition to the higher load factors.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:19:17 am by jim-ratliff »
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byronm

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 06:40:34 pm »
Wow....great wealth of info guys.....thanks.
I guess when I really think about this purchase and purpose. I need to stay pretty close to $500-$700 for the bike and all accoutrements, i.e., after market saddle, (peddles?) several pair of bike shorts, jersey, helmet, shoes, hydration system (not sure what else I might need at this point)
Purpose; better defined- I will be riding 90% or more on road but the lack of side road bike paths in my area means I will probably need to dive off into the gravel/dirt along side a fair amount for self preservation purposes. While I may on occasion, for the experience, load up and take the bike to the mountains for some trail riding, the trails will be docile green runs I am sure.
Bush- cant muster the $1000+ for a FS bike and not sure whether just front supension would be an advantage for my initial bike and intended use. Although, if disc is the future, I see some models in my price range with that feature.
Meput- great overall post and excellent idea regarding bike clubs as a resource.
I made contact and have adjusted my schedule to get over to perfomance bike in the next day or two with the intent on trying several models;
Using Jim's previous suggestion about year old models and value, these are a couple that I thought I might try as well as an add from craigslist I thought I might explore;
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product2_10052_10551_1093302_-1#ReviewHeader
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1095570_-1___400329
http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1094361_-1___400329
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/2955314159.html
Thx again guys.....as always....feedback and suggestions welcome.
 
 

meput

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 09:35:32 pm »
BW, we shall see what the future holds re: disc brakes for road bikes. As Jim alluded to, it will require a whole redesign for a road bike to go to a disc brake. Seat stay and front fork redesign to mount the brake calipers and handle the new torsional forces. Axle redesign, esp. the front axle. Additional spokes and lacing patterns to handle the new torsion transmitted to the rim. We shall see (besides, I like the role of being an old grouch and a cheapskate  ;D).

Max,
If I was riding very long distances I'd buy a road bike.
Bingo!

Byron, beware of the cross/comfort bike. If you find you are enjoying this biking thing, you will soon looking for a true road or a true mountain bike (or both) and abandoning the cross bike. Beware of looking for disc brakes in your price range (new bike). Inexpensive disc brakes are usually cable actuated and loose the power and modulation benefits of a hydraulic disc brake.

Maine drivers are not the most bike friendly, but I have never had to go off the road into the ditch for survival reasons. When I am driving a car, the road bikers that bug me the most are: 1) riding against traffic, or  2) unpredictable because they are not keeping a straight line (weaving), and/or 3) riding multiple across instead of a single line when there is vehicle traffic. So as long as you do not do these fauz pas', most cars/trucks will give you room and "share the road".

byronm

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Re: My Arse is killing me
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 11:48:18 pm »
Ok...thx...Realize my budget is pretty austere for getting started.  Going tomorrow to try a few models.