Author Topic: tubeless how to video  (Read 330 times)

bushwacka

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tubeless how to video
« on: May 01, 2012, 05:44:59 am »
again from my former place of work/sponsor.

http://vimeo.com/35862862

Note that you do not have to use schrader valves, and most non fat bike tires that are UST or tubeless ready will be able to go on with out banding them. Heck most will use a floor pump.

Time how many flat you do in a month and how long this really takes you and realise I had zero flats last year riding this setup, and I ride more than you.

jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 01:56:37 pm »

It may be worth reminding everyone that your clincher tires will no longer be clinching.
However, Josh rides pretty agressively with the "ghetto tubeless" setup and hasn't had any problem.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 02:42:18 pm by jim-ratliff »
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bushwacka

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 02:58:54 pm »
no idea where you heard that. but they very much do clinch, if they did not they would blow off the rim....

jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 03:31:40 pm »



I thought you said that last year, and it made sense at the time.
You've got the half tube covering and sealing the rim and overlapping the tire.  That tube is between the groove in the rim and the hook on the bead. 


What keeps the tire from blowing off the rim is the fact that the bead won't expand enough when inflated to slide over the wheel/ghetto tube layer.  In fact, I remember you warning us not to inflate the tire too high or you could blow the tire off the rim because it's not hooked?





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jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 03:35:31 pm »
In all honesty IMO this way works better than the Stans kits way because its seals up non tubeless tires better.  It doesnt work better than actually tubeless rim which while spendy are a ton better for doing this and you dont have to do it the ghetto way. i have literally 1000s of miles on this setup on various rim/tire combination on trails all over the country. The failures have been few and far between and when it fails I just put a tube in it. On shorter rides where I cant get stranded in the wilderness I dont carry tubes with me anymore as my chances of flatting on nearly zero.

It doesnt matter about the wire vs folding just be very careful of using ultra lightweight XC tires, because some of them  just do not  work. For instance the standard Small Block 8 can be a bear to seal up  but the tubeless version of it works just fine. 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/95039/how-to-do-ghetto-tubeless-for-finndog-and-anyone-else-who-wants-cheap-tubeless-tires

those picture work in that thread.

I use schrader valve because it easier to seat the bead with schrader valve and it also means that any old gas station pump will work to seat the bead with out an adapter. If you use 'tubeless" tires you will most likely be able to seat the bead with a floor pump. Presta valve do work and I have the same set up on my Single Speed cross bike and my road bike with prestaa tubes albeit running a tubeless hutchison bull dog cross tire.  I did not want to drill out my skinny cross/road rims.

as for tube size here is my list

26 inch rim = 20 BMX tube
650B = 24 inch MTB tube
29er = 26 inch MTB
36er(yes they do exist) = 29 MTB



editted to add this

you can not run higher pressure with tubeless. 35 psi is the max I go with non tubeless tires because of the risk of destroying the bead of the tire and also blowing it off the rim, You can run higher with tubeless tire....but the point of going tubeless is to run a lower pressure with out a risk of flatting.


My reference.  The bolding was by me.  I believe seating the bead is not the same as the bead hooking into the slot in the rim.
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bushwacka

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 03:46:53 pm »
yeah the thing every tubeless system even your cars,truck motocycles are clinchers and have a pressure where you will blow the tire off the rim.

A non tubeless tire aka standard casing does not have the stronger bead and sidewall of tubeless tire. They can not take the pressure. Notice how I said you can run higher with a tubeless tire, but then again why would any want to is beyond me?

For instance non-tubeless tire it will blow of the rim at at anything much past 35-40 psi

http://www.jensonusa.com/Bicycle-Tires/Maxxis-Ignitor-Folding-Tire-09

UST tire will probably never come at any pressure

http://www.jensonusa.com/Bicycle-Tires/WTB-Dissent-UST-Tire-09

It is still very much clinched in. The tube is in between but the tire still locks in place.

Another thing to keep in mind is that to much pressure can destroy a rim. Some of the lightest XC wheelset out there have warning about running more than 30 psi on them

http://www.notubes.com/ZTR-29er-Race-Gold-Wheelset-P782C57.aspx

then again people buying the ultra light XC wheelset would not be running a higher than 30 pressure anyways...... so its a moot point for them. I do not know what the limit of most wheel is being run tubeless but then again I never air up above 30 psi on my MTB and 50 on my cross bike so it does not really matter.

jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 08:05:30 pm »
BW:
I'm not saying that the tubeless system isn't solid and safe; just that its a pressure fit against the liner tube rather than the tire clinching under the hook around the inside of the rim.



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jim-ratliff

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Use of sealant with tubeless
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 08:28:11 am »



Liam, Bushwacka:


So now I have tubeless rims and have 560 gram Conti X-Kings that are "tubeless ready" but not truly UST.  This means that they have a tubeless bead and seal against the wheel (with noticeable pings as the tires seats on the rim) but will probably leak air through the sidewall -- the true UST version is 200 grams heavier and I wasn't willing to do that.  But I am considering giving tubeless a trial run by using Stan's or slime with the current tire.


My question. When you add tire sealant, is it a one time deal or does it evaporate and require that you periodically add more? 



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bushwacka

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 08:40:13 am »
one time deal for the season usually add enough. Do not weight weenie out. I use 2 scoops for most TBR tires. I then refresh every year but most of the time tires wear out before I need to refresh.

you should have tooken the 200 gram weight gain and used the UST tires and still used sealant. That how I roll when given the chance.

jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 08:58:25 am »

Sadly, I was driving back when automobile tires all had tubes as well (and that was well before "radial" tires).  It took people a while to accept that tubeless was here to stay.  I'm not committed to bike tubeless yet, just evaluating now that I have UST rims.
 
As long as I am still a "tube guy" then no reason to buy the heavier tire.

According the mtbr forum, the sidewalls on the earliest X-King RaceSport versions (extra layer of rubber for flat protection) were pretty porous, later versions are much better and had the "tubeless ready" classification.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 09:32:56 am by jim-ratliff »
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bushwacka

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 09:07:27 am »
I run everything, and when faced with a choice ill choose the UST tire everytime.

Your still a tubes guy? well the thing is trying something half assed is not the way to do anything.

it would be like skiing on 90s era shaped skis in deep powder and then not likely and proclaiming you do not like powder! Heck straight skis are easier than that straight skis must be better?!

I think the TBR tires should work I use them and still use them just be cautioned they are not as easy as full UST set up hat you could have.

You do realize MTB tubeless has been around for 13 years now as sellable product this is not new fangled tech.

jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 09:52:13 am »
You do realize MTB tubeless has been around for 13 years now as sellable product this is not new fangled tech.




That's like yesterday to me; the world was getting ready for Y2K and life without computers  :o
My two oldest sons were 20 and 22 years old.
And it was getting close to 30 years since I had been in VietNam.


But, actually, no I didn't realize it was that recent. Rather surprising that the default for the bike manufacturers is still tube tires and wheels.

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jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 10:01:01 am »
well the thing is trying something half assed is not the way to do anything.


Yeah, I spent some time in the hospital with a guy that believed that.  He ran up and jumped into the lake to go swimming.  There was a tree just under the water that ripped open his femoral artery. Several pints of mis-matched blood and a few months in the hospital and he survived, but he approaches swimming holes more carefully now.


Me, I'll stick my pinky toe in the water first, and then I'll wade in, and then I might dive!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 10:20:16 am by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 10:18:08 am »
one time deal for the season usually add enough. Do not weight weenie out. I use 2 scoops for most TBR tires. I then refresh every year but most of the time tires wear out before I need to refresh.

you should have taken the 200 gram weight gain and used the UST tires and still used sealant. That how I roll when given the chance.
But if I still have to use the sealant, then why get the heavier tire in the first place.

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bushwacka

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Re: tubeless how to video
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 11:11:12 am »
Why aren't the manufacturers like Specialized including tubeless on their Mtn Bikes?


they are very few shop mechanics though set up them like that to leave the store because well of their bad experinces with them


But if I still have to use the sealant, then why get the heavier tire in the first place.



you do not have to do anything. Its just to make the tire unstoppable. The best tire from a durability stand point I have used was a 26 UST tire with sealant. You could put a nail though it and it would seal.