Author Topic: Why I got banned from Epicski.com  (Read 3047 times)

midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
  • Location: New York City
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2012, 08:36:18 am »
First of all Josh, epic has absolutely no say on this site.
As Highangles mentioned, there are some here who have been banned from their and PMTS forums for statements made or attitudes perceived.
All are welcome. And while we prefer "self moderation", there have been a few occasional call-outs to temper a posting.

You have a clear career path outlined for yourself below.


Quote from: bushwacka
Let it be clear I do not teach to company line on alot of things and I am much more open to new ideas than alot of the higher ups but at the tryouts they saw value to that. they probably also saw value in my youth. I am the youngest Ed staff member on the entire east coast by 3 years. The duty of youth is to challenge the establishment and that I did at the tryout. Some people in the PSIA love that and some are quite frighten by the fact that I could in fact take their jobs.

My goals

2013 make the Dev team
2014 Make the eastern Demo team  which will get me a scholarship to the big show in snowbird in 2016
2015 make ETS squad
2016 tryout and hopefully succeed at the National Demo Team tryout.  crazy to think Ill be 32 by then.

It is my opinion that your accomplishments in skiing and teaching will take a background to your on-line persona unless you get better at "SELF MODERATING".
Which doesn't mean you shouldn't have your opinions and present them. Just do so such that you aren't labeled an ****, braggart, self aggrandizer, etc (I feel a moderating a-coming my way) :P

Many more people read your posts than actually meet you, so the decent, kind, helpful guy, doesn't come thru.
I suggest you ask a friend to help you edit until you get the hang of it.
There are opinions and insights you feel passionately about. You are a smart guy, you can learn to get your point across without creating a firestorm of bad feelings.

You may well be stymied at reaching your goals otherwise, no matter how well you ski/teach. Politics are everywhere.
Learn to deal with it without sabotaging yourself.
Lynn

« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 08:43:33 pm by jim-ratliff »
"Play it Sam"

midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
  • Location: New York City
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 12:23:26 pm »
To get banned on Epic all you have to do is be vocal about not groveling to any number of their resident pros or personnel. Good on you for having a spine Josh.

Heluva, I agree with you about epic having a prejudicial moderating basis. They are a business now and
protecting their brand. But give lip service to being an open forum. As you well know.

I am hoping Josh is looking beyond Epic and toward his goals. His communicating style needs polishing in order to be effective. But that is just an opinion.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 12:43:17 pm by midwif »
"Play it Sam"

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2012, 12:58:37 pm »
Heluva, I agree with you about epic having a prejudicial moderating basis. They are a business now and
protecting their brand. But give lip service to being an open forum. As you well know.

I am hoping Josh is looking beyond Epic and toward his goals. His communicating style needs polishing in order to be effective. But that is just an opinion.

just to be clear, nearly all of you, except helva have NEVER met me. My communication style does not changed or anything. I will was number 6 in private request this year at stowe, and I would bet large amounts of money by next year I am number 2. You do not get their with out being able to communicate with people of all types and be nice about it.

where did hte helva quote come from?

Quote from: gandalf
Added an "N" to the beginning of EVER above, to correct the meaning.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 03:46:15 pm by jim-ratliff »

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2012, 01:39:38 pm »
To get banned on Epic all you have to do is be vocal about not groveling to any number of their resident pros or ----------. Good on you for having a spine Josh.

The above was posted by Heluva, then deleted by me while I checked with our extensive "staff" to see if WE had a concern.  Obviously she didn't, because she quoted the post at almost the same time as I was putting it on hold.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to "hide" a post while it's reviewed, and once it's been there for 10 minutes then there isn't any reason to ever change it.
So in this case I was overly sensitive in my actions.  :-[
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2012, 02:54:54 pm »
What was wrong with Heluva's quote???   That's an acceptable opinion, strenuous, but acceptable.


Josh nothing you said in that Rogan tree skiing thread was all that bad (you didn't knock his skiing just his advice and his terrain choice), but the title was a little hard to get around, no?  Too bad, as I would have liked to see a more expanded discussion on tree skiing technique and teaching from multiple viewpoints-yours included, but not exclusive.

That Okemo video of Egan is not that impressive, huh?  A bit of an eye opener.  Did you ski off-piste (trees, etc) with Egan at Sugarbush?  I've skied with his brother in person, he's a machine in the trees. 

Liam


jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 03:42:33 pm »
As you said, it's a "strenuous" opinion.
I wanted time to think whether I thought it was too strenuous.

You all do a really good job of keeping our conversations at a respectful level, even when we disagree with the other persons opinions or behavior.

This particular topic has really painful under currents for a lot of people (on both sides of the fence), so I've probably been overly sensitive about not wanting the conversations to drift down into the gutter.
I wanted to keep the conversation as much as possible about Bushwacka and not about Epic.
And, of course, it's much easier to err on the side of being conservative. Something inflammatory, once public, can't be pulled back.
I was on the fence; Lynn said I was over-reacting and pushed me off the fence.  I appreciated that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 03:47:49 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

HeluvaSkier

  • Consider me the reason you should pay attention...
  • Instructor
  • 100 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Location: WNY
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2012, 07:43:34 pm »
This site has good people, and a good atmosphere/vibe... probably why so many people who have been banned or are just plain fed-up else where are here posting. Why someone is posting here is probably more important than why they aren't posting elsewhere.
All-Mountain: A common descriptive term for boots or skis that are designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain.

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
  • Location: Rochester, NY
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2012, 07:28:55 am »
Geez...Harold sure do ski pretty!!!! Love his latest video...awsome....a nd never see Eagan ski before and yikes..... :-X

and the rest.... "he said they said stuff"..well IMO...is politics...and I get enough of that on TV!

Ok....group hug please  ::)....I think we've got a great bunch and hopefully more like mind will participate.

G

Svend

  • 4-6 Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ****
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2012, 08:29:59 am »
This site has good people, and a good atmosphere/vibe... probably why so many people who have been banned or are just plain fed-up else where are here posting. Why someone is posting here is probably more important than why they aren't posting elsewhere.

Gasp! This means I've been associating with outcasts and rebels! How shocking.   :o

Hmmm....(thinking....)  But I'm kinda liking it here.  Methinks I'll stick around a while.   8)

LivingProof

  • Global Moderator
  • 400 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 892
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2012, 07:36:34 am »
I've been having difficulty finding my voice in this thread. Candidly, in the Epic forums there is only one person in my "ignore" list, and, that's Josh. I'd get be pissed at something he wrote and began to ask why should I let some internet dude get to me. Life was easier not reading what he wrote. Certainly, there is a lot  of value in some of his postings, and, I respect his passion for skiing. When he changed his posting name to  Josh Motta, I believed (now wrongly) that he wanted to distance himself from his the "Bushwacker" days and become more accountable or mature. At least, I sensed a higher level in posting under that name.

If you are arguing with a litany of people of Epic posters, you are part of the problem. For sure, you can't get into argument after argument without getting down in the mud and wrestling with pigs.

I have a lot of empathy for the Epic mods and often wonder about how much time and energy they have to spend trying to keep the peace in the escalation of derogatory comments in certain threads. I wear that hat here, and, am really, really glad that the mod community has had damn little to talk about in the past 18 months. If they decided that it's far easier to run Epic without Josh, can you blame them?  There are two sides to all stories, we've heard one....and it's funny how in all disagreements, both sides claim to have the truth.

So, Josh, I hope you continue to post in our little forum. Any changes we ask you to make are minor, and, most aimed at continuing "the neutral zone". I also hope you find your way back into Epic.

"Never argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and, defeat you with their experience"
Albert Einstein
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 07:42:03 am by LivingProof »

Perry

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 200 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 397
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2012, 01:50:50 pm »
Josh,
I am mostly a lurker and I don't always agree with you ( that can be said for a lot of people though)
I do think you add to the board and I am glad you post here.  I also would love to make some turns with you sometime - you seem to have a knack for having fun!  ;D
As long as people aren't too dogmatic in their views - ie pounding there points and opinions 3 feet into the icy base layer, then it is good for the give and take. 
Some folks at epic need to relax a little - hard when their internet ski rep is on the line I guess.
my 2 cents

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 10:50:12 am »
Hey Josh,

I read what was left of those threads you called out Egan on...you might have been asking for it.  I didn't think the Rogan critique was such a big deal, but now, when I couple it with the Egan stuff, well, I think even you realized you were on thin ice.

However, I also read Blake Saunders thread on 'The State of the Forum'--he baited you there perhaps unfairly, but then again, you did antagonize him unnecessarily in previous posts (you may not like his skiing style, but that guy has posted up huge quantities of long, pretty impressive free skiing and mogul videos of him and his tele skiing brother..and now his newbie wife--he certainly 'put up', and the guy is a very good skier). 

I guess I can see why the Epic gang decided to close down your act.  I am not saying it was right, but it was getting to the point where every thread was about you (even when you didn't participate).  I suspect a lot of other would be posters were hesitant to ever post up videos for MA worrying about your inevitable opprobrium.  Like I said before, It wouldn't bother me as I respect your critiques, but not everyone is tick-skinned and Epic has to think about the great sea of aspiring intermediate skiers who are their main audience.

I see also that CVJ, Nailbender and the SVMM gang has also gone dormant, which makes me think they were banned as well.  I guess you were part of a general Epicski house cleaning. 

Which is too bad as that place needs a few vibrant voices of opposition to spice things up.

Started Mountain Biking Yet?

midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
  • Location: New York City
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 06:24:01 pm »
Geez...Harold sure do ski pretty!!!! Love his latest video...awsome....a nd never see Eagan ski before and yikes..... :-X

and the rest.... "he said they said stuff"..well IMO...is politics...and I get enough of that on TV!

Ok....group hug please  ::)....I think we've got a great bunch and hopefully more like mind will participate.

G

YES! Group Hug!

Helps to clear the air.
There will always be someone who 'irritates' others.
(and not just BW).

As LP (Mike) said, mods can have a difficult time finding the right path.
There can be a fine line in keeping a group from being dominated
by another's strong opinion.

I hope we can continue to tread the line between free speech, but respectful communication.

a suggestion to all: no MA unless asked/invited to.
"Play it Sam"

midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
  • Location: New York City
Re: Why I got banned from Epicski.com
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 08:34:05 pm »
No disagreement there, Max. ;D
The operative word is "requesting" .
Unsolicited analysis is unwelcome to some.
"Play it Sam"