Skis and Gear Discussion > Gear Garage
Krypton Pro boots
jim-ratliff:
The post above by Bushwacka, in my opinion, is very well done.
And an excellent summary of him picking a boot that fits well with his skiing. If this were facebook, I would give him a "like" or whatever they do over there.
disclaimer. I don't have a faceboot account or a twitter account. I am trying to keep as much of my life hidden from the Chinese as possible.
Svend:
Josh, thanks for a very complete and informative reply. Kudos!
Am I correct in my interpretation of your post, that the Krypton is better suited to off-piste skiing? But then, you use it for racing too. So there must be enough power to the edge and snow feel to do duty in the gates (?). I spend about 2/3rds of my time on hard snow (east), and 1/3rd out west, so am really looking for a boot that has good edge power and snow feel for hard snow, but is still capable off-piste.
As for lower leg strength and balance, I don't think that will be an issue, When I ski off-piste and in crud and bumps, I'm in a pretty neutral stance in my boots and don't drive my shins to hold me up or pressure the shovels -- more or less even pressure fore and aft in the cuffs. And this with the forward lean in my Tecnicas being pushed ahead quite a bit using thick cuff shims. I can ski all day like that, so shouldn't have any problem with a boot like the Krypton, which can't hold me upright. OTOH, on-piste carving is different, and I pressure the shovels a fair amount.
Wither Tecnica? There sure isn't a lot of love here for that brand. As I said, mine fit great, and I would keep them if they had more edge power and were a bit stiffer fore-aft. FWIW, the flex pattern is very smooth and progressive, with a long range of motion, all of which I really like and helped sell me on this boot.
Josh, which Tecnica did you have? I'm guessing the Bodacious? Is that one based on the Inferno shell? Any comments on the Inferno 130 semi-plug boot (98mm version)?
Mike -- you mentioned that Phil moved from a Krypton to a 4-buckle boot. The Tecnica Inferno 130 was the boot that he switched to (see his review on Epic). Also, I wanted to ask you what the Nordica Doberman boots are like. I know little about those, other than they have an excellent reputation as being a no-nonsense, high quality boot. How would you describe their fit and flex pattern? Are you happy with their performance?
--- Quote ---- the cuff flex travels inwards making it not as responsive to tipping as boots that harb likes, this is a IMO a valid concern but fixable. I moved the inside cuff hinge point on my forward and the outsides ones back letting my knees track outward instead of inward. Gave me alot better edge grip on harder snow.
--- End quote ---
This is an interesting comment. Apparently Atomic is coming out with a new performance boot for 2013 (to replace their 98mm Burner series) that will have a cuff alignment mechanism that can move the hinge points forward or backward. This is to tweak the inside/outside tracking of the knees when flexing. Cool. And innovative.
LivingProof:
,
Mike -- you mentioned that Phil moved from a Krypton to a 4-buckle boot. The Tecnica Inferno 130 was the boot that he switched to (see his review on Epic). Also, I wanted to ask you what the Nordica Doberman boots are like. I know little about those, other than they have an excellent reputation as being a no-nonsense, high quality boot. How would you describe their fit and flex pattern? Are you happy with their performance?
[/quote]
Svend,
You are correct that Phil did make the transition to Technica and gives them high marks. I believe a prime reason that he left Dalbello is that his shop does not carry that that boot. He wants to be on a boot that he sells.
FWIW, a small primer into PMTS boot thinking. HH writes that the proper place for the leg to be, in all phases of the turn, is between the rear of the boot and the front of the boot. The shin should lightly touch the front of the boot. Said another way, "Don't Push Plastic". The benefit of a stiff boot is that it helps to recover the centered leg position when balance is moved too far back or forward in skiing. The angles created by the ankle in the boot remain constant in his school of skiing. That why many PMTS skiers ski in 150 boots, like Helluva, John and Max. I'm not advocating you seek a 150.
So, my skiing thoughts are never to test the forward flexing of a boot, in the shop or on the hill. The temperature changes between the two are extreme and I don't see the value of flexing a warm boot. I want a boot rigid that compliments PMTS tipping concepts. If asked how my boots flex, the answer is "they don't". I drink the cool aide in my thinking.
I think the Dan Boisevert may ski in a Dobie 130 and I believe Max skied in that boot prior to moving on up. They are narrow last and low volume boots, with a lot of material available to be removed via grinding. I would consider that boot in the future, although they are ancient by todays boot life standard. Phil just did a review a new boot Nordica has for next year, called Back to Black, which seems to update the Dobie 130. If you find one in your travels, try it on! And if you find one in a 29, let me know!
HighAngles:
Good post Mike and you kind of point out an important distinction between current 3-piece boots and traditional 2-piece race-inspired boots. My Head Raptors are ideal for what I refer to as "foot skiing" whereas the Flexon/Krypton promotes more "leg skiing".
We've discussed this before on the PMTS forum, but for the benefit of the Peak Skiers here's a quick version of my thoughts. Narrow 2-piece race inspired boots fit the foot very closely and are quite responsive in transmitting foot movements to your skis. Foot movements are the foundation of PMTS skiing. Harald has pointed out in his videos and online that you should not need to tighten the top of a race flex boot tightly on your leg. He keeps his top buckle fairly loose. One of the reasons I LOVE my Raptors is that they have the double-power Booster strap as OEM. I trimmed away the plastic at the top front of the cuff so that my Booster strap is only against the liner, thus the strap "connects" my lower leg to the rear spine of the boot (where 2-piece shells get their forward/rearward flex support). The double-power Booster lets me keep the top buckle loose while providing a really nice progressive flex. The progressive forward flex provided by this setup is as good (if not better) than a Flexon/Krypton with their separate plastic tongue. There is no "hard stop" when flexing forward with my Raptor setup. The Booster strap just gets progressively more taught until it no longer stretches any further.
I find that the Flexon/Krypton boots need to be tightened around the lower leg to maintain sufficient control of your skis. When your boot is tightened around your lower leg your foot movements aren't nearly as efficient or effective in producing tipping power. Thus these boots turn you into a "leg skier" where you're using the gross motor movements of your legs to achieve ski tipping. I think the reason for this is the buckle placement on these boots. Although the ankle buckle (or Dynalink in Krypton terms) seems like a good idea for pulling your foot back into the pocket, I've found that having 2 buckles (just above the ankle and over the instep) combined with a stronger lower shell provide much better holding power for my feet. Now I have a low instep so it's quite possible that a different foot shape may not have quite the same issues in a Flexon/Krypton, but I'd be surprised if this isn't the same case for a lot of skiers.
My Raptors fit my feet so well that I can leave the buckles completely undone with just the Booster strap tightened and I can ski just fine. In fact when I ski relaxed with my kids that is exactly how I keep my boots.
Svend:
H-A, Mike,
This is interesting stuff. I can see the logic of a stiff boot limiting your fore and aft movement on hard groomed snow, but how does that translate to 3D snow - crud, bumps, powder? Would not the ability to have some fore-aft movement in your boots be a benefit? Allow you more ability to maintain balance by adjusting stance? I'm just trying to think through how I ski that stuff, and while I definitely see the need for a stiffer boot (being the original reason for starting this thread) to help power through the deep crud, I don't think I would want to go too far with this and be totally "locked in" and rigid.
Mike, I think you were right on in your first reply -- a good 130 flex would be the ticket. Well chosen, and given my height and weight, a 130 flex boot would give me enough fore-aft range to recenter and balance in rough snow, yet give me more of the power and assertiveness that I'm looking for.
And no worries, I don't take the flex stiffness in the shop to mean anything. But I do flex the boots to see what range of motion I might have, how progressive the resistance feels as I move forward, what happens to the lower cuff and shell when I flex, as well as if the fit changes from the deformation. As for stiffness, on a cold day, even my 110's are plenty stiff.
H-A, thanks for insight into the Booster strap and comparison to the Krypton design. That's really good to know that I can get that nice smooth forward flex and range of motion that feels so compelling in the Krypton, but still get the power of a solid 2-piece narrow lasted shell. I like it! Considering that I spend so much time on hard eastern snow, but still ski western mountains a significant amount, this will be a good combination.
FWIW, my Inferno's are designed to have the power strap sit half-on and half-off the upper cuff and tongue, if you can picture what I mean. The forward flex is nice and smooth, but it would be easy to slip the strap fully under the cuff so all of it snugs on the tongue -- I'll try it next week to see how it feels. On my wife's Lange RS110's, I actually cut the upper piece of cuff off so that the strap sits full on the tongue. Lange was smart enough to mold a scribe mark into the cuff for just that purpose. She loves it.
--- Quote ---I think the Dan Boisevert may ski in a Dobie 130 and I believe Max skied in that boot prior to moving on up. They are narrow last and low volume boots, with a lot of material available to be removed via grinding. I would consider that boot in the future, although they are ancient by todays boot life standard. Phil just did a review a new boot Nordica has for next year, called Back to Black, which seems to update the Dobie 130. If you find one in your travels, try it on! And if you find one in a 29, let me know!
--- End quote ---
Size 29, eh? That will cost you extra freight for me to ship boots that big ;D
Seriously, I'll keep an eye out for them. From Phil's review, it sounds like they might be a perfect fit for me too, as he is in the stiffer version of my boot (Inferno shell), and the Nordie's fit him even better. And I love the boss colours. 8) Maybe my kids will respect and fear me more if I wear those. Ha!
Guys, thanks for all the great feedback. You've upped my level of knowledge about boot design and fitting a great deal, and helped me focus in on a set of criteria that will be important for a good match.
It will be fun to kick around some shops in the coming weeks trying boots. I've got a mental short list of ones that I think might work, based on past trials, and I want to try some others again that didn't fit so well a few years ago to see if they've changed. Will keep you posted.
Cheers,
Svend
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