Separation at the hip joint

[bushwacka]

Simply put I think we can all agree that the great skiers separate their upper and lower body and the hip joint.  Not the spinal column, not the Sacroiliac joint but where the femur meets the hip. How do you guys achieve this though tipping alone? How do the expert PMTS guys achieve this?

You know my feeling on it. i feel the separation is an active conscious action.

[Gary]

Hey Bush...I'll jump in here...

IMO....all men should take Zumba lessons, or learn the Samba or Cha cha....men in general that I've worked with are too body stiff when it comes to skiing.

I like you think separation is an active conscious act....maybe even a rhythm your body gets into connecting turns...
One of my favorate thoughts is " dancing on the mountain"...I know sounds weird but if ya let the body relax (with visions and application of a good technique base) then that separation can occur...but ya gotta here the music.

Again I know that sounds weird but you can have all the technique skills in the world, but flowing down the mountain, separation of the upper and lower body is part of the dance from the feet up.

Mechanically speaking.... from my technical mind side, turning the head looking to the next turn, (skiing in the future) and solid pole plants help the skier find that upper/power body separation and rhythm.

G

[bushwacka]

I hate to start stuff here but turning are heads to start the new turn? that does nothing to start a turn. tipping starts a turn but if we do not seperate the legs from the hips then we can not remain balanced or quick with out turns.



I am anything but stiff and I think I know how to flow. I practice yoga at least 10 hours a week and can do some of the more advance stuff.

so your saying that separation just happens?

[bushwacka]

ehhh not buying anything. If someone wants to send me a copy Ill watch it.

so how does moving my pelvis going to cause my skis to turn. I look at skiing well as having a lack of pelvis movement since its form are base of movements and is part of the upper body.

[Gary]

Nope, separation doesn't just happen, what I'm saying assuming the skier has good tipping technique with the feet, counter balance, pole plants, looking ahead to the next turn assist and facilitate IMO upper lower body separation. You don't start a new turn by turning the head..for me it's the pole touch and tipping that start the new turn, turning the head keeps me skiing in the future....I want to ski where I'm going not where I've been.  You know that better than many skiing the tight tree lines you guys ski.

There's no twisting of the legs in my description Max....the moves I described are subtle and occur with strong tipping, counter movements and well timed and connected pole touches or plants.

I do agree with Max in that the pelvis is part of the upper body and should move with it.....many skiers I've been been around and see are too locked in and have a difficult time finding that ability to separate.

Nice Bush on the 10 hours a week Yoga...I too get my gym time....I do think that this all helps in strengthening the muscles that support counter movements and help get that feeling of separation...applyi ng that to skiing is where many have difficulty.

Max, your original question was how do Great PMTS skiers achieve that...

All I know at this moment in time is that good poles, foot tipping skills and counter work create the basis for upper/lower body separation...this rest to me, is about finding the rhythm.

G

[Gary]

Bush, forgive me for not asking..

How do you separate upper and lower body?

G

[bushwacka]

Gary

by making it happen from muscular movements in my legs and core actively letting my legs tip and twist to a desired out come.  I would say in the above video there are turns that are entirely done by countering against and letting the skis turn me and turns that are done by me turning the skis while still holding counter.

 

[Gary]

Hey Bush....some of the worlds best bump skiers do the same thing you just described and some of the best tree skiers I've ever seen do the same thing.

I find in certain situations in all mountains skiing I will use the same tool...

I must admit though I am a true hybrid....I apply both schools of turning when conditions allow and or demand it.

AND without question...both effective...BUT..in my humble opinion and experience, in specific terrain, one is more beneficial than the other. Having said that....I am of strong belief that there is NO perfect technique.....that the old, perfect and wrong techniques are still as much a part of skiing as the new ones...just more tools to make me the most versatile skier I can be.

BTW Bush, I just saw that video you posted...amazing, well done....I must admit i wish I had learned that early on in my skiing life...you looked very fluid and control, picking your line and not it picking you.  I will have to try that dolphin move next time I get in the bumps...a sweet tool indeed.

Great subject matter...g

[LivingProof]

Josh,

PMTS is about teaching body movements to get into angles. Some essentials are devoted to the lower body (tipping and flexing), others are devoted to the upper body ( counter balance, counteracting and no-swing pole plant ). The intent is to have the whole body work together and the upper body works independently of the lower. PMTS is not directly explained as the separation occurs at the hip, but, the concept of having level hips is included, but, it's getting into some of the finer points.

Turning the head counter to the direction of the turn will not start a turn. It will cause the shoulders to turn back up the hill and the intent is to let the student fell the shoulders turning in the proper direction.

Check out the following You  Tube HH video about counterbalance and counteracting to see the basic drills to teach body movements.



And, if you pm my your address, I will send you my personal copy of "Essentials of Skiing" - yours to keep with the understanding that you will study it. The guppy may just grow into a bigger fish! And, just saying, I'd love to be able to read the PSIA officially approved book about how to ski.

[bushwacka]

there is no one book since we are opened ended.

I know exactly what CA/CB are again watch the video, I posted as example of not sucking.

My issue is this, people like midwif need something more than your drills and doubt its takes a more flexiable body have strong stable upper body. Except at the extreme ranges of motion.

[Gary]

Interesting Max ....without ever having skied with you ....you've determined I'm mainly a "Clendenin student"....

In my experience, Clendenin teaches to the non bump and off piste skier the easiest most effective way to learn skiing 3 dimensional terrain. His method with focus on pole touch, tip, drift and recenter on the uphill baby toe edge provides the 3 D skier with amazing turn shape and speed management in b ump, steep, deep and tight conditions. I've taught and seen the positive results of this.

I have the most profound repsect for HH as he taught me so much about angles, tipping, flexing etc...certainly more than I ever learned from other teaching disciplines; awesome for where I use it and how I blend it into my current skiing.

So put your "mainly" into your own personal description.....whe re my mind is open to learning and gaining a variety of tools to use all over the mountain....you've have found your place happily with your specific training....very happy for you.

That's where we differ significantly...but hey....it's all about finding what works for ya.

G

[jbotti]

Midwif will likely have a breakthrough when she connects her pelvis (hips) to the torso. John and I both had this breakthrough as a result of the on snow PMTS drills and dryland movements/stretching. I needed alot of dryland work.

Josh, regarding the need for a flexible body. Age plays a role here. I have to stretch daily or I begin to tighten up to the point that CA/CB is very difficult to achieve on skis.

Agree that anyone that does the PMTS drills for CA and CB will have a major breakthrough as both Max and I have had. I also agree that flexibility is a big issue with CA and CB. Hip flexibility is just as important as back flexibility. Unfortunately running a lot tightens up and eventually locks up all hip flexibility. It took me about a year to gain that flexibility back (after running big mileage for over 20 years). Like Max I stretch mostly everyday and hip and back flexibility is a major focus.

I also agree that all high level skiing has quality CA and CB present. You just can't ski well at a very high level without it, especially off piste. I can also say that this is part of the reason I have no interest in attending a Clendenon camp. His CA in the videos is almost non existent and it is the same for the students. He may be teaching it and preaching it, but it just isn't in place in anyones skiing on the videos. I know I can't ski bumps without exaggerated CA and CB.

Lastly, I think there is a progression. In the PMTS world it just isn't worth much to work on other stuff until you can tip at a high level and initiate turns by tipping the LTE of the old stance ski. Typically it is tipping and flexing and CA and CB gets worked into the equation. But for someone that can tip and flex properly, CA and CB becomes the key to the next major breakthrough.

[Gary]

Max....when in school...I do what the teacher says...when he says demonstrate, I demonstrate the system. Had a great time with JC too. I find his system easy to apply and highly practical for 3D snow.

I don't profess to be the perfect PMTS student in my approach to my current skiing, same thing in CSM.....I don't advocate any style of skiing...I only can say what has helped me or what I've seen help others.

Max, trust me, I do use the movements you describe but also use other skill sets where and when conditions demand....pretty simple I think.

Clendenin understands PMTS and I think was Level 2 certified, but for whatever reason, he split and introduced his own concepts.

Anyways Max, it would fun someday to be able to make some turns with you. I know from the pic's you've posted you create some great body and edge angles.

I'd like to be able to think that guys like me, Bush, John, you, Lynn and other believers in "a skiing system", are tolerant enough to respect those that have developed ways to best suit their terrain choices, aggressiveness, their bodies ability to deal with those terrain choices and the big one...FUN factor.

Best as always, g 

[bushwacka]

I just want to be clear. Just because I am PSIA does not mean I believe in their system(which there is none anyways). I will never be aa yes man to anyone.

I am all for using what works which is kinda of the point of this post.

What happens in tight woods, where tipping to make you turn shape does not have a merit?

[LivingProof]

there is no one book since we are opened ended.

I know exactly what CA/CB are again watch the video, I posted as example of not sucking.

My issue is this, people like midwif need something more than your drills and doubt its takes a more flexiable body have strong stable upper body. Except at the extreme ranges of motion.

Josh
Go back and read the OP where you asked how PMTS teaches CA/CB. Asked and answered in several posts. If you don't have the curiosity to do detailed research, don't ask for a few lines in a post. If you want to put down HH skiing as lame, then why ask how or what he teaches.  If skiing is an open book, then you have to keep an open mind.

Wow, so you just tighten up some muscles in the abs and legs. HH often describes that learning to relax certain muscles plays a major part in getting into big angles. Agree?

So here's your problem, you are now the man and will have to lead instructor level clinics. It's you who needs to offer a concise answer that works for everyone. Far easier said than done. Come back next year and tell us about the flexibility of the average part-time PSIA instructor. When I talk with our local PSIA instructors, most know nothing about CA/CB. Generally, you are in attack mode when discussing the instruction concepts of your peers, so give us an outline of how you will teach CA/CB. Turn about is fair play. 

[jim-ratliff]

Wow, so you just tighten up some muscles in the abs and legs. HH often describes that learning to relax certain muscles plays a major part in getting into big angles. Agree?

Mike, I think that's overly strong. I think BW's original question was fair, as was most of the discussion. Especially for a topic that has been at the center of so many acrimonious conversations elsewhere.

[jim-ratliff]

This thread really drives home Diana's comment about each person determining where their ski journey goes.

Max and John have a PMTS focus.

Josh has a different focus, in his skiing and how he makes a living from the ski industry.

Gary has his own focus and enjoys what he learned from JC on top of the PMTS foundation.

John Clendenin, I heard, was a black certified PMTS instructor, but then developed a different course of instruction.  And  its worth remembering Perry's wife, who had given up on skiing after taking a PMTS camp, until some private skiing  with Gary and a very positive lesson with John C opened the ski enjoyment door for her.  I would imagine that John could demonstrate CA/CB, but chose an approach that doesn't rely on those movements. It seems to me that drifting obviates some need for edges, and once you turn onto the face of the bump you have edges.

Not my way, but a valid way.

Just sayin'.  There is nothing wrong with any of those value or enjoyment systems.  The key is to be an educated consumer and make OUR choices for the journey we wish to pursue..

[midwif]

Josh
A good question asked, but as has been mentioned before, the
best place to get info on PMTS is on the PMTS forum.

Unless you are asking a rhetorical question and using it as a springboard
to discuss your methodology.

Tipping doesn't create upper/lower separation. It is the basic initiating movement taught to turn the skis.

CA/CB are generally taught later after more basic movements are being used by the skier.

As a skier who first learned to ski as an adult and was taught to stop and turn using wedge movements and weighting, I had to work really hard to "relearn" skiing.

CA/CB was never a focus in PSIA lessons I took.

It is very heartening to know that there are PSIA instructors( you) who can discuss and demonstrate upper/lower body movements in skiing.

Anyway, if you really do want to understand more of what PMTS methodology is about, the first place to start is in your head. You know, that open mind thing.

I agree with you that I need to connect my pelvis with my torso.
I have really fallen off the yoga curve. Though won't get near 10 hrs/wk until I retire!
Lynn

[jim-ratliff]

there is no one book since we are opened ended.

I know exactly what CA/CB are again watch the video, I posted as example of not sucking.

My issue is this, people like midwif need something more than your drills and doubt its takes a more flexible body have strong stable upper body. Except at the extreme ranges of motion.

i disagree.  Max and John (and maybe Helluva) are "living proof" that the PMTS drills get you there, but not merely the tipping drills by themselve.

[midwif]

Midwif will likely have a breakthrough when she connects her pelvis (hips) to the torso. John and I both had this breakthrough as a result of the on snow PMTS drills and dryland movements/stretching. I needed alot of dryland work.

Hey, I had my breakthru this year!
Wait, I get it, your talking about my NEXT breakthru!

[HeluvaSkier]

Hey, I had my breakthru this year!
Wait, I get it, your talking about my NEXT breakthru!

They all come together. When one movement improves, all the others must do so in order to compensate because PMTS is built on balance. Hence the SMIM. The question should always be "whats next."

[jbotti]

A rare look at the old Max. Wow he is light years from that skier today!!

[jim-ratliff]

Thanks Max.

Very worthwhile.

[HighAngles]

A rare look at the old Max. Wow he is light years from that skier today!!

I had no idea that was Max in that article.  Yep, light years...

[LivingProof]

Interesting Max ....without ever having skied with you ....you've determined I'm mainly a "Clendenin student"....

In my experience, Clendenin teaches to the non bump and off piste skier the easiest most effective way to learn skiing 3 dimensional terrain. His method with focus on pole touch, tip, drift and recenter on the uphill baby toe edge provides the 3 D skier with amazing turn shape and speed management in b ump, steep, deep and tight conditions. I've taught and seen the positive results of this.

Gary,
Just reading the above, many would conclude that JC is the predominant influence with respect to how you think about ski technique. In this forum, many times you have written about your upright, centered skiing method as a very efficient way of getting down just about any trail. I think you have differentiated "high carving" from "brushing" and I've seen you ski in both worlds. I would not change your skiing and certainly not your passion for being on a mountain..

I remember meeting you in Jackson, you wore a PMTS.org patch on your jacket and we discussing the influences that HH had on your skiing, including tipping. That was prior to many of the modern PMTS concepts (CA/CB) as described in Essentials of Skiing. Since then, your experiences with JC have expanded your thinking and improved your ability to ski the mountain via your own way.

Being an advocate for JC or Harb is different than being in lock-step. All the above is just a long way of saying that your skiing may be considered by others as Clendinish. Not a bad thing.

[Gary]

Hey Mike...thanks and I must agree in that JC's methods have made me a more efficient, less tired and worn out crud, bump and pow skier...I have NO doubt about that. You know the conditions we skied at Holimont with the pow and some of the narrow lines i skied on the DPS...very comfortable...no tight or tired muscles...just very relaxed. This is how I can ski 6 days in a row and still be ready to go again.

But as an example skiing with wife, Svend and family at Mr. Norquay, given the perfect carpet groomed snow we had and the amazing steeps, I was channeling HH all day long. Creating good angles, lot's of counter and movements right out of his book. Felt like a jet pilot ripn' turns until closing time.

So....I take great pride when I've had guys like Peter Kelty and an instructor who knows Harold having said to me...I can see a lot of HH movements in your skiing. I take great pride that I can apply the skills taught by HH and JC to me and use them wherever conditions will give me the longest, less fatiguing, happiest, most fun day on the mountain.

So yup....if you've seen me skied or any here that I've skied with...whatever anyone calls what I do....I'm loving it and like you Mike,  always looking for more ways to make me better.

Thanks my friend...g

[LivingProof]

Those concepts where covered way back in Book 2. Maybe even earlier.

Max is correct. I did a reread of Expert Skier 2 and the chapter "Complete Upper Body" introduces the concepts of separating the upper and lower body at the hips. HH also describes "counteracting" but I did not see the concept of counterbalance explained. There is a lot of material covered in that one section, including pole planting and arm positioning. It's worth a reread, but, the detail and introductory drills contained in Essentials is far more detailed both for CA and CB.

[Liam]

Those concepts where covered way back in Book 2. Maybe even earlier.

There were elements of CB/CA, but nothing like the obsession post Essentials.  Gary isn't the first to point this out...Paul Heyoka's recent inflammatory video posting ranted about the divergence of PMTS focus pre-and post Essentials (it's too bad he was so phlegmatic in his post because there was a lot to discuss in his video, and with one of the most vocal HH supporters of the past).   I can't help but Notice that Clendinnen who was on board (Black level) and Brooksbank (blue level, which is funny since he is a better skier than all those guys) back with the expert skier books, went a very different direction in the Essentials era.  Clearly, something in HH's focus changed (whether it was for the better or for the worse is up for debate--I have no input in that arena).

'Bush, what is the best way, in your experience, for Lynn or anyone to develop dynamic, powerful and supple upper/ lower body separation (especially in the hip joint)?  It's ok that you don't like HH's program, but I'm interesting in hearing your program.  It is clearly working for you, how about your students?

[Gary]

Hey guys...just got in from NYC....wife, I and friends went to see The Book of Mormon...fun weekend for sure.

Having skied with John I can only tell you the video's of skiing with students does not demonstrate in total John's skills using CA/CB. Having free skied with him on steep groomers to pow and crud he incorporates solid counter movements and upper lower body separation extremely well. John was also a world class freestyler and bump champion, so you gotta know he's got more moves than a Mississippi River Boat Gambler!

What I can affirm that we he teaches studentns for skiing bumps, pow, crud, and trees IMO requires so much less energy, complete speed managment and turn shape for those kind of conditions. I also have met friends and fellow students with both knee's replaced, some with hip replacements and they'll be out skiiing bumps all day long too.

For me it's not what John does or does not do, it's what he did for me and many many others. Simple, his system works too.

G

[Gary]

Max. John also has a great manual out available on line. His bump skiing methods have some primary principals, pole touch signals edge release of uphill  edge by tiping the down hill ski, then control is moved to the down hill big toe edge to drift or float to re-centering on the new uphill edge, (tip and scrape the new uphll edge in) all starting with very upright and relaxed, hips squared and staying with the chest and upper body, compression to effect power to the edges, and next pole plant, skis always connected to the snow, and extenision or JC likes to say, the Kiley stance, arms wide, tall and ready to start the next turn. I have to say there's soooooo much more than this short paragraph can describe, but like you posted for others, if you're truly interested in learing more about the ease to learn, simplicity and effectiveness of what he teaches for bump crud and pow skiing, you can buy the on line manual for $15 I think.

As you are a student of the art of skiing..reading and seeing both principals will at least shed some light on to  the concepts CSM teaches.

From my personal study and application, Clendenin paired with HH....there's no better teaching systems.

G

[Gary]

Glad to hear Max that you got that info....JC believes his method is constantly evolving. My last clinic with him was in Portillo, Chile....something that was very clear is that he's not focusing on a very narrow stance the skier has to force his legs together...it's where your feet align or stand naturally...

Having said that, I believe as living proof for myself, sucesses my wife and numerous others have had  (including Peter Keltey's wife), John system provides SOMETHING usable in bumps, pow and crud. We are skiing more bowls, more bumps, more glade more steeps with more confidence using techniques learned from him. Still, I find many PMTS movements applicable and make both systems work for me.

For us....what I think the primary skill sets received from CSM were speed management and turn shape in bumps and crud with less energy expended, fewer hard angles, simply just easier on the entire body...pretty much sums up the rewards of  his system.

Max, our perception of what we  consider expert skiing might differ too....I've seen JC and his instructors ski monster bumps at warp speed, effortlessly and it sure looks pretty darn expert to me.

Summing up my thoughts without wearing out this topic, his system may not be for everyone, it may not employ every PMTS principal, but using solid pole plants, tipping, effective use of the skis four edges, given the performance results I've experienced, there's no doubt in my mind that JC and his cadre, are expert skiers, and of course....my perception.

Only thing left to do Max is ski together, mabe someday....it would be great fun to compare notes! All the best,..g

[jim-ratliff]

Max, our perception of what we  consider expert skiing might differ too....I've seen JC and his instructors ski monster bumps at warp speed, effortlessly and it sure looks pretty darn expert.

Gary:
Now I'm curious.  When John and instructors are free skiing (or warp skiing  ) would you say they are using the same suite of movements, or have they added to those base movements.  I know if you watch competitive bump skiers you see a lot of upper lower separation and angulation, and I would not be at all surprised that JC could (and might) still ski that way if the bumps are challenging enough?

[Gary]

Hi Jim....watching pro bump skiers, what I notice is how quiet their upper bodies are, shoulders square to the fall line, lower body and upper body quite separated but angulation quite muted. The edges are not digging deep, the big toe edge is not sliding away from the uphill ski, using the float or drift to stay connected to the bumps or 3d terrain. In all the clinics I attended with John, CA or CB never was discussed....it's not part of his teaching system. Touch, tip, Drift and Center are the primary ingredients to skiing bumps and 3d terrain...amazingly simple and effective. John skis all manner of bumps, size, shape and conditions the same way he teaches us....it works.

Jim, JC understands and can apply PMTS skills....I've skied 2 ski lengths behind him and watched him...BUT...that's not why I and many others wanted to ski with him...he woke up our senses to the bottoms of our skis and to the edges of our feet with hours of tip and release drills, free foot back, use of the drift...all skills that awakened new abilities, less effort, and so much more confidence.

John first and foremost was a freestyle and bump skier wild man back when...plenty of videos to support that. He knew bump skiing like the old days could wear you out and  found a more effective way to teach bump and 3d snow skiing...ways that save the body, energy and create efficiency in that kind of terrain. John is a professor of ski skills who is always studying, learning and applying what he deems effective to teach to others.
Watching John ski bumps with his fluid bump skiing is what I aspire to...it's what brought me to his methods. Watching Harold carving, with his amazing body angles and counter is what I aspired to and what brought me to his methods.

My struggle to be able to tackle a variety of terrain with skill and confidence was enhanced by these two great instructors.

G

[LivingProof]

My take on Clendenin ski method. I think John is a shrewd businessman, in that, his school marketing distinction is for recreational skiers to come to Aspen and learn how to ski bumps in a couple of days. A very tasty proposition catering to those with some $$$. How much anyone can change their skiing in a couple of days is limited, so, he's got to keep it simple....the 4 words approach seems reasonable. I would bet the typical student shows up with upright stance and somewhat square upper body. So his technique leaves the upper body alone and focuses on the feet (including tipping), much like PMTS starts with the feet. Also included in a focus on centering balance over the ski - always great advice.

For me, the much more interesting question is why CA/CB is almost unheard of, at least on my small little hill. In the ski club racing team that I spent a bunch of days skiing with, there is no appreciation of these movements.

[Gary]

Hey Mike....it's interesting cause when I showed up in 2008 and John put me on the simulator, he noticed right off the bat that I was using PMTS movements. Further, John runs clinics too but also will do private sessions. I think many more leave his tutelage with the knowledge, but it's taken me 4 seasons really to get a good hold and apply at will the re-centering tool. Like any other teaching form it may be minutes to learn and apply but some skills make take hours and hours of application to own.

I've seen such a variety of skiers in classes, not all upright like mine "was not". The first thing I learned I was too far over the shovels for skiing 3d snow and some boot work got me more centered so fore/aft movements became more "alive"! I think what we learned and have applied, yes costly, with both Harold and John....all worth the price at this point in our lives.

Max...John is HUGE into demonstration and teaching absorption and extension...HUGE..b elieve me....I was way to static and compressed leaving no room for absorption an extension...somethi ng till this day I work hard on.

G

[Gary]

Hmmm..well Max...he teaches absorption/extension by demonstrating what he's looking for...It's very obvious to me that his DVD certainly show him using absorption/extension in his skiing...at least I know I see it.  I will check my manual to see what I can find....We also worked on drills where we start tall in a drill similar to falling leaf and absorb to set edges and as soon as the skis (primarily the uphill edge) are perpendicular to the fall line, then make a quick turn in less than one ski length. This really highlights edge release, weight transfer, a solid feel for the flat part of the ski.

The book demonstrates how bumps can be skied softly and in control....more aggressive bump skiing in steeps and tighter lines...JC quickly introduces the advanced student to the importance of absorption/extension as well as skiing in the future.

John builds the students skill set from the feet up...get the feet right he moves to the pole touches, get that right he moves to absorb and flex....it's a progression the skier get's based on their grasp of the primary fundamentals.

Much like I started with Harold...learing from the feet up.

[Gary]

Max...I just went back and watched some of the clips...in some where he is skiing around the bumps (good point) you don't see it...but in others, the absorbtion and extension is subtle but there to my eye. The lightest movements enough to do the job...why apply any more than the terrain requires.  The steeper the terrain and where he addresses the bump, control the degree of absorbtion and extension....unfort unately not on any clips he's posted. But having skied some of those monsters with him...I can attest...it's there.

I think the reason for the soft subtle moves is that the clips target market was finding those clients wanting to learning to ski bumps... to show them how easy you can ski them without twisiting or hopping...or hurting. Hey, got my attention 4 years ago.

From there, John teaches to the advancement of the student. Hope that helps.

G

[bushwacka]

Josh
A good question asked, but as has been mentioned before, the
best place to get info on PMTS is on the PMTS forum.

Unless you are asking a rhetorical question and using it as a springboard
to discuss your methodology.

Tipping doesn't create upper/lower separation. It is the basic initiating movement taught to turn the skis.

CA/CB are generally taught later after more basic movements are being used by the skier.

As a skier who first learned to ski as an adult and was taught to stop and turn using wedge movements and weighting, I had to work really hard to "relearn" skiing.

CA/CB was never a focus in PSIA lessons I took.

It is very heartening to know that there are PSIA instructors( you) who can discuss and demonstrate upper/lower body movements in skiing.

Anyway, if you really do want to understand more of what PMTS methodology is about, the first place to start is in your head. You know, that open mind thing.

I agree with you that I need to connect my pelvis with my torso.
I have really fallen off the yoga curve. Though won't get near 10 hrs/wk until I retire!
Lynn

I am pretty sure I am not ever allowed on PMTS web forum.

Before our lift serviced season was done, I did go out and did runs focus on two different things. One run I would focus on tipping and thats all.  Then I would focus on making sure my seperation was at the hip joint.

Tipping runs I already have though years or practice pretty good angluation focusing on tipping I was able to really get on edge. short turns do seem to happen with out any rotary input as long as I can go fast enough do not have to vary turn shape. Bumps were a handful on all the skis I tried with just tipping.

Seperation runs I seemed to hold a better edge despite not getting as high of edge angles. Its hard to describe but in my opinion in most turns the skis were turning me and I was letting the seperation happen at the hip joint IE I was adding anything beside tipping and forcing my inside hip up and forward(what PSIA calls a strong inside half). Bumps were way easier since I was able to point my skis where I needed them to go in pinch moments.

I have worked alot on building a strong inside half(aka CA/CB) this year though not only yoga but though laps and laps of practice. Take into account I am loosey goosey AT binding that have seen much better days and my angles are what can be support on some very soft spring snow but I feel as if I have really stabilized my upper body.

[jim-ratliff]

Josh:


You don't have to join to view the material on the PMTS forum.
And I'm pretty sure that you would be welcome to join if your focus were understanding (not necessarily adopting).  It's not a place to debate the merits of how you ski versus how Harald skis.