19 to 33.5

[Gary]

Having purchased the FX84's for my outwest all purpose ski....I had to decide what to do with my Kastle MX78....
When I set it up, my mindset was it was going to be my all purpose all mountain do everything ski. For 3 seasons, it was my go to workhorse. In Jan at Jackson....my mindset changed having some very wet snow to ski in. To date, the FX84 now fills that all mountain workhorse for me. So do I sell the 78 or what?
After much thought, I decided that with it's 16m turning radius, it still could be a decent carver on eastern snow. I needed height. My Marker Griffin bindings had a stand height of 19m.....sub par for sure for any carver or slalom type ski. I wanted to have a binding that was adjustable fore and aft and more stand height. After much consternation and searching, I found the new Head PRD12 binding. It had a stand height of 33.5 and very very easy for quick fore aft adjustments...sound ed good.

This weekend in a variety of eastern conditions, I put it to the test. It's been 4 seasons since I've been on a slalom type ski. Whoa...this was a great test and brought back some fond memories. The best way for me to describe is that the difference is the feel of the old binding was muted, less feedback. Not only has the added stand height added better feedback but much quicker feel of the feet, binding and ski interface. There's no clunky feel or response in this binding. It's well connected and solid underfoot. Even skiing in the crud and granular 5 inches of junk, no probs of any oversteer or grabbiness.

Looks like this move was a good one for me making the MX78 much more "alive" in the slalom or carve turn catagory.

G

[LivingProof]

G,

Interesting observation. Memory recalls that John Botti always states that he likes stack height as it gives him better tipping ability. So your little experiment conflicts with the 'all bindings are pretty much the same' mantra. I also seem to remember the Marker Griffons  are marketed to wider skis, and, guessing that below a 78 they may be too wide. I did see some Marker PR11's on Evo for $110 and that binding is suited for a skis with a waist near 70.

Did you set up the bindings so your fore/aft boot position was on the same point? Did you use the Power Rail adjustable feature to make any changes?  I know Jim R is a big fan of this binding.

Just thinking out loud, but, demo a 70 ish waist next time you are on typical eastern conditions (Dynastar Cross ti or Elan Waveflex 12). Spring snow sometimes is too easy, plus, the added stiffness of a 78 helps get through crud over a carver. I think that Bristol's demo program, which is right at the top of the mountain and inexpensive is a marvelous way to compare skis.

Just an educated guess, but, the Kastle 78 will not be in your quiver come next December.

[Gary]

Hey Mike...actually the Marker Griffon gave good edge to edge control as a versatile all snow ski....can't really fault it for that. It's just that I am now able to narrow down the intended use of the ski finding that the extra stand height is no prob for what I'm using it for.

When I got to test day, because it has more ramp angle than the Marker which is virtually flat, I started with it one centimeter back from where it was originally mounted. On the mountain testing, I moved it back about 5mm, then back to where I started and then forward 5mm...it's just about in the same location the Markers were set at. I didn't make that connection until my experimenting was done. Interesting the sweet spot was the same.

According to Head...this is a newly constructed binding with some interesting updates. I so far like what I feel and see.

As for adjustments, pretty simple.... you just lift a tab to move the toe piece and same on the heel...simple...eas y to do on snow.

Point well taken Mike....I really didn't want to spend the money for new carvers....I would like to demo some thing narrower....time will tell.

G

[HighAngles]

The PowerRail (PRD) is a really nice update from Head/Tyrolia for the old Railflex binding series.

I'm also a big proponent of stack height.  It's also a good idea to try to keep your binding deltas roughly equivalent so that you don't have to make any major adjustments in your stance.

[dan.boisvert]

Disclaimer: I'm an equipment ignoramus.  I'm pretty much oblivious to changes in stack height, binding delta, etc.  I mostly just notice ski sidecut radius and stiffness.

I've had some of the PRD12's mounted on Head Monster iM78's for a year and a half or so now, and I haven't noticed them in any way, shape, or form.  They just do their job and have been holding up quite nicely.  They don't feel as beefy as the higher-end Freeflex Pros I have on other skis, but they've been working just fine on the iM78's.

[jim-ratliff]

G,
Did you set up the bindings so your fore/aft boot position was on the same point? Did you use the Power Rail adjustable feature to make any changes?  I know Jim R is a big fan of this binding.

Yes, I too like them.  Had them put on my Ullr's Chariots last year and on Lynn's Ski Logiks this year and they came from the factory on her Progressor 8's. We we both now have them on both our narrow and our wide skis. So easy to adjust and to remove, so we take one pair of bindings for two pair of skis.
They are advertised as wider and lower than the Railflex, and have a 4mm increment for adjustment rather than the 1.5 cm of the Railflex.

[Svend]

Hey G -- sounds like this was just the ticket to make your MX78's come alive.  Everything that I have read about this ski -- ie. lengthy reviews from very good skiers -- says that it is one of the best hard snow carvers out there, and can hold its own against, and even surpasses, most high performance narrower skis.  Excels in quickness, edge hold, smooth running, short and long turns (there's that dual radius sidecut again), and has no upper speed limit.  An outstanding ski, and my guess is you'd be hard pressed to find anything significantly better.  Different, maybe.  Better in one or two aspects, maybe.  But better all-around and as versatile for varying conditions? Not likely.  Keepers, for sure.

Yours just needed a lift, is all.   

Speaking of stand height, I never really noticed it at all until I bought my Progressor 9's, which had a demo binding with 10mm higher stand height than the standard Flowflex binding (see my comments in Byron's demo binding thread).  This, on top of the 17mm thick Flowflex plate, was too high for a 70mm ski, and made the skis twitchy and over-sensitive, which was fine on smooth hard snow, but was a drawback in crud and softer snow.  So I guess you can have too much of a good thing. 

Gary, let us know how the skis feel after this week's ski outing.  Hope you get some nice corduroy groomers to open 'em up and see what they can do.

Cheers,
Svend

[Gary]

Glad to hear you guys too have had good performance from the PRD12.

Interesting to hear you have them on your fatter skis Jim...and thinks for the 4mm info...wasn't sure exactly what the increments were.

My Marker Schizo's have a "stack" or "stand" height (not sure which is the correct description) of 25mm....have these on my FX84's and DPS112rps....seem pretty responsive in the conditions I use those skis in.

Just wondering if any would find 33+mm of S height a bit much for a pow or crud ski or is it really all about an individuals edge to edge feel on that ski.

Svend...duely noted about the twitchyness....the problem I assumed would occur with a pow ski. Glad to hear you got that worked out. Truly do like the crud busting, solid feel at speed performance of the MX78....It's going to be a difficult ski to replace one of these years.

G

[Svend]

Svend...duely noted about the twitchyness....the problem I assumed would occur with a pow ski. Glad to hear you got that worked out. Truly do like the crud busting, solid feel at speed performance of the MX78....It's going to be a difficult ski to replace one of these years.

I think so.  I haven't skied a Kastle, but from the reviews of the MX78, it seems to be up there with the best of the 68 to 72mm high performance skis from such marques as Stockli, Blizzard, Fischer, Head, etc....  It would have to be an exceptional ski to get you to change. 

And I think the added stand height will effectively erase whatever overlap there was with your FX84's, and will make the 78's much more agile, responsive and quick, making them more "narrow carver" in character than with the flat mounted Griffins.  A good move, and something that will rekindle the fire you have for those babies.

Looking forward to more reports....

Re. the Powerail, from all the positive reports on these, I will likely be mounting them on a new ski I bought for Terryl -- the women's version of the iM78.  Should be a perfect match.

[Gary]

Hmmm...sounds like we must get you on some Mx78's!

Regarding the overlap Svend.l...exactly my thoughts too.  I did have a blast with them this past weekend once I got the binding location dialed in.

I too think that binding will be the perfect match up for T's new skis.

[jim-ratliff]

Interesting to hear you have them on your fatter skis Jim...and thinks for the 4mm info...wasn't sure exactly what the increments were.

Just wondering if any would find 33+mm of S height a bit much for a pow or crud ski or is it really all about an individuals edge to edge feel on that ski.

I've heard that for a true powder ski you want the bindings as close to flat on the ski as possible, that it gives you better feel.  But I don't know if the difference between 25mm and 33mm is notable.


In my case (and in Lynn's) we don't use the Ski Logik's as "just" a powder ski, cause the powder is so soon gone. So I figured the height would help with the wider platform on edge. 


The power Rail is standard on many of the intermediate Head and Fischer skis, with even wider application than the older Railflex. And it can be fitted with brakes that range from low 70's to 110mm or so.

[Gary]

Thanks for your thoughts Jim....I think it may boil down to feel for each individual.

Another cool thing about the Head binding is that I always thought the Marker Griffon had a very wide footprint especially on the toe piece. The Head PRD12 also has a very wide (actually as wide) toe piece very pronounced on 78 underfoot. Another reason I think the edge to edge response is so good.

Gotta love technology!

G

[HeluvaSkier]

You think 33mm is a big difference... You should try out the 50mm that I usually run. 

[ToddW]

You think 33mm is a big difference... You should try out the 50mm that I usually run. 

Hmmm.... platform shoes.  So, what are you compensating for?

Kidding aside, it'd be interesting to learn more about your setup and what one person at your level has done to achieve high performance.  You live in a corner on a peak of the skiing world that most of us know nothing about.

Todd, I edited slightly to reflect High Angles suggested "peak skiers"  theme.

[HeluvaSkier]

Kidding aside, it'd be interesting to learn more about your setup and what one person at your level has done to achieve high performance.  You live in a corner on a peak of the skiing world that most of us know nothing about.

What are you curious about?