Author Topic: Fischer Ski Rant!  (Read 1842 times)

ToddW

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 06:47:51 pm »
I got a pair of kers supershapes late last season that was overbevelled.  Geoffda skied them and made his opinion clear  :o  They're definitely more fun now at 0.5 base.

HighAngles

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 11:23:08 am »
Some clarification is in order.  Base geometry is rarely off on most skis these days.  However, edge geometry is a completely different story.  Do most people really know how to check the edge geometry of a new ski from tip to tail?  I doubt most people have the tools or the know-how.  Trust me when I tell you that you will get more out of your new skis if you go to the trouble of ensuring that they are setup to your preferences from day one.  Yes, you may be just fine with them out of the wrapper, but I can pretty much guarantee that at least the edge geometry is not consistent or correct.

BTW - I've been hand-tuning skis for about 25 years.  Over that period I've probably owned well over 100 skis (it may actually be closer to 200, but I've never counted).  I currently have around 20 pairs sitting in my house.  I think my observations are statistically valid.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 02:34:38 pm »



HA:  You must own a ski manufacturing plant or work in a ski shop?  How do you happen to have access to that many skis, and to have that many skis in the house?  I'm beyond impressed.


Let me know, but I think I need to add some special category to your ski profile.  Most of us, the system just counts forum posts.  Maybe we need to count "number of skis demoed."

"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Svend

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 03:19:37 pm »
I currently have around 20 pairs sitting in my house.

And please include a picture of your storage (warehousing?) system.  There are 8 pairs in our house, soon to be 9, and I don't know where to put them all.  Innovative storage solutions are needed.  Please help.....   ;D

HighAngles

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2012, 03:28:17 pm »
I'm just a horribly addicted hobbiest for the most part.  :o

I'm actually looking into a better garage storage system.  For the moment I have 5 pairs in the garage, 9 pairs in the laundry room, and around 6 pairs in the basement (at least that I recall).  My wife has been more accepting of the situation since I sold off 7 pairs this past Fall.

If I could find a way to make serious money with my skiing addiction I would be doing that in a heartbeat.  I have some ideas, but my day job doesn't give me enough time to focus my energy.

Svend

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2012, 08:19:54 pm »
This is all good! If 20 or 30 is the new normal, then I will hasten to tell my wife the great news.  If another pair or two....or three, make it into the family quiver, she will know that I am being restrained and frugal and respect me for it.  Perspective is everything in such matters.  Thanks guys! You've made my day.... ;D

« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 08:21:37 pm by Svend »

midwif

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 06:56:56 am »
This is all good! If 20 or 30 is the new normal, then I will hasten to tell my wife the great news.  If another pair or two....or three, make it into the family quiver, she will know that I am being restrained and frugal and respect me for it.  Perspective is everything in such matters.  Thanks guys! You've made my day.... ;D

Yes, a new normal has arrived!
Terryl and I DEFINITELY need to go shoe shopping together and explore this concept :P
"Play it Sam"

LivingProof

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 07:07:37 am »
This is all good! If 20 or 30 is the new normal, then I will hasten to tell my wife the great news.  If another pair or two....or three, make it into the family quiver, she will know that I am being restrained and frugal and respect me for it.  Perspective is everything in such matters.  Thanks guys! You've made my day.... ;D

Svend,
On our recent NY trip, I introduced the gang to the phrase "pretzel logic". The above fits! But, hey, I've got too many skis, so, who am I to talk. And never ask me about 'old golf clubs'.

Svend

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2012, 07:47:36 am »
Yes, a new normal has arrived!
Terryl and I DEFINITELY need to go shoe shopping together and explore this concept :P

Lynn -- Oh no you don't! Subversive, you are......  This applies only to skis.  Terryl has been waaay beyond the 30 shoe pair norm for decades already.  I have considered installing a robotic storage and retrieval system, complete with bar code scanners and punch pad, just so she can organize and store them all.  Imelda had nothing on her.  Besides, if we do go down the road of ski buying frenzy, she will be a greater beneficiary than I will.  I could easily drop at least 2 pairs into her quiver without blinking.  So there!

Svend,
On our recent NY trip, I introduced the gang to the phrase "pretzel logic". The above fits! But, hey, I've got too many skis, so, who am I to talk. And never ask me about 'old golf clubs'.

Pretzel Logic! Love it! Haven't heard that term used in years.  Not since the Steely Dan album was big way back then.  And I practice it all the time, but had forgotten to apply that moniker to it.  Great philosophy, that is. 


ToddW

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 03:51:50 pm »
Yes, a new normal has arrived!
Terryl and I DEFINITELY need to go shoe shopping together and explore this concept :P

Lynn, as you acquire the shoes keep in mind the storage conditions they'll encounter:  5 pairs in the garage, 9 pairs in the laundry room, and around 6 pairs in the basement.  It wouldn't do to buy basement shoes for the laundry room or vice versa.  Note also that closet shoes are not permitted in this paradigm.

midwif

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2012, 06:21:38 pm »
I'm in big trouble.
I don't have a laundry room! :o

L.
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meput

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2012, 06:32:54 pm »
Lynn,

You told Todd and me that you let Jim take care of all the mechanical stuff with your bikes and skis. Since you have no laundry room, does that mean you let Jim do all the laundry as well?? ::)?

midwif

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2012, 07:11:38 pm »
Are you kidding? :o

I care what color my whites are.....like 'em to stay white.

No, to Jim doing my laundry. :P

But, I am very willing to let him give me his best opinion on tires, handle bars etc.....


L.
"Play it Sam"

Svend

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2013, 04:57:57 pm »
I own 3 pairs of Fischer skis and I ski on none of them. All 3 pairs are overly grabby and they can be painful to ski on with variable snow conditions. It is especially rough when you go from soft snow and then hit hardpack because they pretty much just rail on hardpack. One of the skis, my Progressor 9+ have had a base grind so we have to at least say it was a bad base grind that caused it. On the other two (a watea 94 and a Watea 84) I have 10 and 35 days repectively and no base grinds. My friend whose tuning knowledge base is much greater than mine was out this past weekend. I told him my issue with the skis and he took out a true bar and we looked at all three pairs of skis. All three are concave, the middle of the base is lower than the base at the edges. This is essentially the opposite of what you want on a ski base.

This may be a downside to buying skis online (I bouight two pairs of these online and one from an authorized dealer). I have no idea if they are covered by the warranty and I don't really care at this point. I have said it before but I am done buying Fischer skis.

My friend Willi Wiltz who prepped skis for the the US Ski team for years, tod me that Fischer is notorious for not letting the skis dry properly after they mold and texture the bases. Instead they throw them in boxes quickly and the skis warp as they dry causing the concave effect. Maybe this is why they were so cheap on the internet and were possibly seconds? Don't know but it seems possible.

It also seems that most people who buy Fischer skis don't have this issue, but I have 3 pairs that this has occurred with. I am having two get a new base grind and that may fix the problem, but there is no way this should be occurring.

You can all put it in the FWIW category.

John, I have a theory as to why this might be happening.  This may be all moot, as you may not be skiing on Fischers anymore, but perhaps it may still be pertinent.

I was waxing a pair of Progressor 8's a few evenings ago, and noticed that the iron was not contacting the PTEX at the edges of the skis at the tail, and less so at the tips. Strange, thought I.  There was about a 3/4" band at the tails, and 1/4" to 1/2" near the tips, where the iron was clearly not contacting the base along the edge.  I let the skis cool, brushed and polished, then checked with a straightedge for flatness, and found them to be perfect.  Absolutely bang-on flat from tip to tail.  Doubly strange.  ???

These skis perform fine, and I checked them in at the start of the season to make sure they were flat - no issues.  I also checked the base of the iron, and it was also perfectly flat.

I repeated this on the same skis the very next evening (different temp wax needed), and the same thing happened.  By comparison, all the other skis I waxed over those two evenings - Nordicas, Elans, Dynastars and Heads - did not show this behaviour when heated by the iron.  Only the Fischers.

So, I am surmising that the heat of the iron caused the bases of the Progressors to swell so that they were no longer flat and even with the edges.  There might be something about the materials or construction of the Fischer bases that might be at the root of this.

John, in your case, if the heat of friction from the base grinding was excessive and not kept sufficiently cool, then the bases of your Fischers may have swelled.  The machine would then have flattened a swollen ski, which upon cooling after the grind, would have shrunken to a shape that was then edge-high (concave).  This would explain the railing behaviour you experienced.  It may be that Fischers (or at least some models) are particularly sensitive and susceptible to elevated temperatures during grinding, where skis from other makers are not.

FYI, I have had four pairs of Fischers base ground -- RC4 Progressor; Progressor 9; Maunga twins; and Progressor 8 -- and none of them have come out anything but perfectly flat.  These were done on either a Wintersteiger or a Montana machine, both of which (I believe) use water cooling to keep the temps down during grinding.

It would be interesting to run this by your tuning guy, and see what he says.  I may be way off on this, but I do know for a fact that the Progressor 8's did not stay flat during ironing.  I will test this on the other Fischers we still have (Maunga twins) and see if they do the same.  Unfortunately my P-9s are now with Gary's son, so I can't test it out on those.

Let me know what you think, and if you get any feedback from your shop.

Cheers,

Svend
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:08:33 pm by Svend »

Gary

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2013, 11:36:49 am »
P9's all good...my son loves them and has had them on hard snow, crud and 9 inches of pow....

Edges and bases...true....I do have to say...Fisher steel and base durablity...some of the best for wear and tear I've seen.

G