Author Topic: Fischer Ski Rant!  (Read 1841 times)

jbotti

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Fischer Ski Rant!
« on: January 18, 2012, 02:08:14 pm »
I own 3 pairs of Fischer skis and I ski on none of them. All 3 pairs are overly grabby and they can be painful to ski on with variable snow conditions. It is especially rough when you go from soft snow and then hit hardpack because they pretty much just rail on hardpack. One of the skis, my Progressor 9+ have had a base grind so we have to at least say it was a bad base grind that caused it. On the other two (a watea 94 and a Watea 84) I have 10 and 35 days repectively and no base grinds. My friend whose tuning knowledge base is much greater than mine was out this past weekend. I told him my issue with the skis and he took out a true bar and we looked at all three pairs of skis. All three are concave, the middle of the base is lower than the base at the edges. This is essentially the opposite of what you want on a ski base.

This may be a downside to buying skis online (I bouight two pairs of these online and one from an authorized dealer). I have no idea if they are covered by the warranty and I don't really care at this point. I have said it before but I am done buying Fischer skis.

My friend Willi Wiltz who prepped skis for the the US Ski team for years, tod me that Fischer is notorious for not letting the skis dry properly after they mold and texture the bases. Instead they throw them in boxes quickly and the skis warp as they dry causing the concave effect. Maybe this is why they were so cheap on the internet and were possibly seconds? Don't know but it seems possible.

It also seems that most people who buy Fischer skis don't have this issue, but I have 3 pairs that this has occurred with. I am having two get a new base grind and that may fix the problem, but there is no way this should be occurring.

You can all put it in the FWIW category.


LivingProof

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 04:59:45 pm »
JB,

I understand that the base can continue to cure and shrink following final factory finishing of the ski, and, your results do not say much for Fisher QC. A friend skied the 9+ in a Nastar event I participated in this weekend. He loves them for that format for the grip on hard snow you described plus the turn radius fits pretty well. I find it hard to believe Fisher would keep and sell "seconds" of a top of the line ski ( I have been know to be naive ). Helluva sends a whole bunch of helluva-dollars to Fisher, I await him weighing in on this issue.

If the 9+ went through a base grind and still remains concave, I would think that both Fisher and the base grind shop did not do their QC work. I don't see how a base grind would introduce concave. I've read various posts stating that if the ski is flat for 1/2" to 1" from each side, and then concave only in the middle, it should not be detrimental.

And, for the record, I'm jealous that you can ski from soft onto real hard. A luxury not often seen east of the Mississippi.

HeluvaSkier

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 06:09:17 pm »
I only ski on Fischer race product, so I don't know how their pedestrian skis perform... I've never had this problem with my race skis though. They all arrive in amazing condition.

If you want, I can send you my address, you can box the skis up and send them to me for evaluation.
All-Mountain: A common descriptive term for boots or skis that are designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain.

LivingProof

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 05:21:52 am »
Max,
Funny how definitions remain inconsistent. John stated "they rail on hardpack". My mind translated that as "just leaving RR tracks" or that they just get up on the edges very well.

@ Helluva

You pull no punches.......and know how to turn a phrase

"PEDESTRIAN SKIS"  :o :o
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 02:29:00 pm by LivingProof »

Svend

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 07:48:11 am »
Hey John, not sure what's going on with your Fischers.  We have three pairs in the family -- P9, P8, and a Maunga twin tip -- and they are all fine.  You'd mentioned this problem before, and since then I check them regularly with a straight edge -- all good so far. 

The P8 had a base grind last year on a Wintersteiger machine, and came out perfectly.  Still flat after a year and about 20 days skiing.

BTW, the first pair of Progressors that I had -- the '08 RC4 -- also needed a base grind when I got them because they were edge high, just like yours are (if you recall, I bought them used).  Once that same Wintersteiger machine had at them, they were perfect and stayed that way until I sold them a few months later.  You remember the provenance of those skis -- perhaps that's more than a coincidence?

The P9s do have very aggressive edge grip -- the most of any ski I've been on.  I have to detune the tips and tails to get them to stop grabbing in soft bumps.  I like the hard edge grip, as they hold exceedingly well on a steep icy slope.  But they certainly don't rail in the way you mean it.  I've been on demo and rental skis with that kind of tune, and it is awful....unskiable almost.

FWIW, there are a lot of Fischer skis sold in this area, esp. their race models, and they have an excellent reputation for quality amongst the locals.  I have never heard anyone say anything but good things, and this even from people who don't sell them.  They are generally regarded as superior to the other major ski makers in terms of quality and performance.

From personal experience, the steel edges on all our Fischers seem harder and hold a tune longer than other skis, and their PTEX bases seem much harder and less prone to scratching and gouging.  I am impressed, as it makes my tuning and repair work much lighter.  Head skis seem to be not nearly as good in that regard.

Good luck with sorting this out, and keep us posted if you find out anything more.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 08:17:45 am by Svend »

HighAngles

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 09:30:27 pm »
I don't ski any ski fresh out of the wrapper.  All skis are ground flat if they're not flat already and then I hand set the side and base bevels to my preference.  I have NEVER found a single pair of skis that didn't need a tune when new (and I own/have owned a lot of skis - still have almost 20 in my current quiver).  The best of the bunch are my Stocklis and even those need some care and attention before they hit the snow.

IMO, expecting a ski to work to its potential without a personal tune is like starting a race 100 yards behind the starting line.

jbotti

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 10:48:30 pm »
Nearly all of my skis have been fine out of the wrapper.

Same here. A ski should not need a base grind to ski it, ever!!

Gary

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 08:40:15 am »
When I buy new, I run a flat bar on the bases to make sure they're right....never yet had a pair that weren't...however,
I have had new skis come with edges different on each side of the same ski and or both skis needing file work to make them G-perfect.  8)

I too am a big believer of having the skis spot on before I ski. When away skiing consective days, at end of each day skiing, I always run a diamond stone on the edges to make sure they're ready for the next days carving.

Make um right, big delight!
G

LivingProof

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 09:23:57 am »
Going a bit off topic, but it is Fisher related.

The liners of their new line of heat shrink boots seem to be causing quite a stink. Many already putting aftermarket liners to address both comfort and wear. Great news for Intuition et al, but, bad for the consumer. Another example solidifying my preference to avoid first production years of almost anything. Reminiscent of Dalbello's initial effort to develop a 4 buckle race boot that also debuted with poor liners.

I wonder how Fisher will warranty these boots?




HeluvaSkier

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 09:44:51 am »
An interesting note on liners... they are almost all made by the same factory in Italy. Plug liners are virtually all the same.
All-Mountain: A common descriptive term for boots or skis that are designed to perform equally poorly under a variety of conditions and over many different types of terrain.

jbotti

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 10:59:30 am »
Could it be that many people in the Fischer Vacuum have never been in a plug/race liner before and they are expecting way too much. Sounds like that could be the issue. If this is the case, then I doubt they will "fix it".  Clearly many people with wide feet that are used to cushy liners in wide last boots have gone to the Vacuum boot.

Gary

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 12:22:02 pm »
I've got a friend who Mike will meet this weekend in Ellicotville...Paul R. from Pittsburg...

He has the narliest feet with stumps and bumps from many years of martathons, college baseketball etc...really hard feet to fit off of the shelf. He also has a size 30 boot...not available in the Fischer Vac yet. When I was with him in Park City last month, he tried to buy a pair of the FV boots....based on  what Mike is saying...good thing the didn't have his size. I did not take out the liner to look at it but man, the modifications they can do to the boot...the concept is very intriguing. But I agree Mike...let it mature on the market first so the bugs get worked out. The store said Fischer is expexeted to bring in larger sizes next year...good thing for Paul.

I was told by their fitter, no matter what shape foot, thin or wide, the boot can be expanded or shrunk to accomodate the individuals God given appendage. I think more feedback from others would be helpful.

Anybody heard about their on mountain performance?

G

jim-ratliff

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 03:49:48 pm »



Since Lynn and I spent some time in Jans in Park City, and since they had the Fischer machine there, we chatted some about the Vacuum boots.
The two bootfitters there say everyone they have worked with raves about the boot (including several employees) and implied several were pretty high-end skiers.
They also said the line would be dramatically expanded next year (implied that half the Fischer lineup would be vacuum molded). He also said the boots were less affected by cold as far and getting them off at the end of the day (I took that with a grain of salt, plastic is still plastic).
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

ToddW

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 05:41:08 pm »
Same here. A ski should not need a base grind to ski it, ever!!

Shouldn't.  But some Head product has been shipping with base bevels up to 2* the last couple years.  See HH's strongly worded comment (below) about this on a Head promotional video in the peak performance ski shop's youtube channel.

Quote
Why is the base tune of HEad skis so "detuned", to 2 degrees, this makes the skis skid out from under skiers on hard snow? We have to send our skis out to be re-tuned even when new, out of the wrapper? Does HEad want to pay for the retuning? ....

jbotti

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Re: Fischer Ski Rant!
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 11:00:04 pm »
I guess I have been lucky with Head skis in that I have alwyas had a very and nicely skiable base grind and bevel from the facttory on all their skis I have bought. I have heard people talking about the terrible Head factory tunes but I have yet to experience it first hand.