Author Topic: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review  (Read 2570 times)

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« on: December 21, 2011, 05:59:57 pm »
I finally got on these skis today. We got 8-10 inches last night and today. I skied the IM 78's this morning and then I took out the Chariots in the afternoon. Much of the mountain is not open (not enough snow) so I was skiing 8-10 over groomed except in some areas where they opened some off piste terrain. By the time I got on the Chariots it was all chop and some powder still left off piste. My first run was into some broken pow off piste. In spots it was 2 feet+ deep and there was a ton of chop as well. I kept waiting for the skis to buck like Dawgcatching said in his review said. This never happened and they were pretty smooth, and very easy to go fast on as well. Quite stable but nothing close to being too stiff. On the chop on top of groomed the skis just rocked. Especially versus the IM 78's. The 4 extra inches in length I'm sure helps and I was skiing the I'm 78's center and they ski chop better back 1.5cm (but I was too lazy to move them this morning). But it felt like work on the IM 78's skiing the chop as I always felt a little too far forward. The chariots just ate up the chop and in tight GS turns (15m radius). Amazingly easy to ski and there was a little hero quality to them as I was going way faster than I normally ski and I felt in total control. The ski is very stable. In more minor bump type terrain where it needed tighter slalom like turns the skis tipped easy and a brushed slalom turn was really easy and I never felt bucked by the skis going over bumps (nothing was huge as we haven't had enough snow or enough skiers). I later did several laps downn the front side skiing some fresh or barely chopped over groomed and some chop and some places were it was chop mixed with the man made boiler plate. The skis did everything well. I am not sure about the tune. I think it comes 1.5 side from the factory and I think 2 or 3 on the side will be better. I never felt like I could go full bore on tightening the turn radius and cranking tight edge lock turns but the conditions didn't help either because you had fresh on top of boiler plate. The few sections of steeper pow like conditions I was in were easy to ski and I think the ski will be very nice in pow. If we got 2 feet tonight and they opened the ridge (forgetting about all the rocks) I would grab this before the Shamans. Thinner under foot, easier to turn and tip, just as stable but never felt too stiff as the Shamans do at times and just as much float at least in this type of snow. Later in the season I will take them out side by side with the shammies, but right now this ski looks like a winner.

I was on the skis about 2:30 and I really enjoyed them and they felt almost perfect for the day we were having.

It is also important to realize that I have been skiing the Shamans forward almost 1cm because I switched boots after I mounted them. They ski pow fine up there but chop over groomed at speed is not that much fun because the balance point is too far forward. I am remounting them with Railflex demo bindings so that I can dial in the right spot on these. Having said all this, I think the chariots are easier to ski and I love the tighter turn radius. As well the Shamans would have been overkill today at 110mm underfoot (a little too wide and a little too stiff) and the chariots felt pretty much perfect (at least today).

I kept looking for the flaw that Dawgcatching highlighted in his review and I kept skiing chop at speed to see if I could get tossed. It was actually the opposite for me and I think this is a great chop ski rivaling the old IM 88 (which IMO is the best chop ski ever made).

More after I ski them some more.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 07:00:28 am by jim-ratliff »


midwif

  • Global Moderator
  • 1000 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 1389
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 08:10:24 pm »

John,
Jim has been looking forward to your review.

Not that he needed validation, mind you . :D

Glad to hear that first tracks are a positive review.

I am hoping to be able to give my new Isis SkiLogiks a serious workout to evaluate their performance in the near future.
Colorado was hard snow country last week.
 Between the low snow and new boot-liners, I shied away from
skiing the somewhat stiffer Isis skis.
And I loved my Progressor 8's!!
(review to follow soon)

Let us know how you feel about the Chariots further down the mountain.

L.

"Play it Sam"

Liam

  • Ski Shop/Ski Patrol
  • 200 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 399
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 08:16:08 pm »
Didn't dog review the RL's (I assume your on the TT's...or am I wrong on both counts)?

I know Peter's crew loved the TT's but found the RL's over stiff.

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 08:24:57 pm »
Yes, I am on the TT's and they are different skis than the RL's. My assumption however has been that they wouldn't play with the flex too much between the TT and the RL. Assuming this I was worried when I read Dawgs review. Flex on the TT's is right on. 

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 09:23:00 pm »
JBotti:
Glad you liked them. I was most curious whether the longer ski would be as versatile as the 178 that I have.
Precision Ski in Frisco was recommended to Lynn by someone at Harb Ski Systems and also does all the Ski Logik prep for the skis they take to the SIA shows. (and one of the guys there has a pair of "demo" Ullr's Chariots that is his favorite ski). Anyway, their recommendation is a .7 base bevel and a 2 degree edge.  They feel that it's ok to go less than 1 degree base bevel because of the width of the ski, so you wind up with an edge that is very close to the normal 1 and 3 but just a bit quicker.
I doubt I can feel the difference, so just sharing the information, but I do like the idea of getting the same net edge while taking off less material.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 06:51:50 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 09:32:30 pm »
Yes, I am on the TT's and they are different skis than the RL's. My assumption however has been that they wouldn't play with the flex too much between the TT and the RL. Assuming this I was worried when I read Dawgs review. Flex on the TT's is right on.
They didn't change the running surface flex of the RL, but they dramatically shortened the rear twin tip and added that length to the front to create the RL front; and my understanding is that this part of the ski is overly stiff and that is what throws the ski around in chop.  On groomed slopes you don't feel any difference, but on crud and chop the stiff early rise tip begins to make occasional contact with the piles of snow and throw the skis around.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 06:55:12 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 09:42:10 pm »
John. Give some serious thought to remounting with Power Rails instead of the older Railflex. Easier and broader adjustment, same drill template as the Railflex.
Heck, Lynn can now easily move her bindings between the Progressor 8's and the Ski Logiks at will, something that she couldn't readily do with RailFlex.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 10:04:10 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

bushwacka

  • Instructor
  • 400 Posts
  • **
  • Posts: 471
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 10:07:49 pm »
JBotti:
Glad you liked them. I was most curious whether the longer ski would be as versatile as the 178 that I have.
Precision Ski in Frisco was recommended to Lynn by someone at Harb Ski Systems and also does all the Ski Logik prep for the skis they take to the SIA shows. (and one of the guys there has a pair of "demo" Ullr's Chariots that is his favorite ski. Anyway, their recommendation is a .7 base bevel and a 2 degree edge.  They feel that it's ok to go less than 1 degree base bevel because of the width if the ski, so you wind up with an edge that is very close to the normal 1 and 3 but just a bit quicker.
I doubt I can feel the difference, so just sharing the information, but like the idea of getting the same net edge while taking off less material.

.7 on an off piste ski would be scary hooky.

I literally run as high as 2 on the base and my skis still carve fine you just have to tip further and harder.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 10:56:40 pm by jim-ratliff »

LivingProof

  • Global Moderator
  • 400 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 892
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 06:37:14 am »
JB,

First, really glad you got the right snow to demo them on. It's 50-60 degrees here in the east, so I'm also really jealous. Enjoy.

Nice detailed review, there's always a detachment in your writing. Real live review in real conditions. You "call it as you see it", not afraid to knock a new ski you own. I can hear Jim exhaling and shouting (to himself) Yeaahhh! Jim just came up a level as a ski reviewer. ;D

Whenever I read a Dog review, he makes it very clear that he weights 150 lbs. So when he describes stiffness or bucking, he leaves as an open question that a heavier skier may not find the same properties.

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 12:08:19 pm »
What I've found is the I can work the stiffer performance boards but they can work me....in other words,....I have to pay way more attention to what's happening and they also tend to tire me out more quickly.

I think there is some correlation between energy in energy out....kinetic and potiential energy...

Being on a ski all day ....I prefer to have one that I can drive as hard at the begining of the day as well as the end of the ski day.

I think the combination of riders input, weight, skills and energy mold one's perception of a skis performance.

g

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 12:24:22 pm »
Keep in mind that Dawg skis at a high level which means significant forces bending the ski. Therefore the weight qualification may not apply the way folks think it does.

BTW, John isn't a heavy guy. He and I have the same perceptions on any ski we've both been on and there have been a bunch. And Dawg and I have the same perceptions on most skis we've both been on.

I suspect the difference they are reporting is due to something other than weight.
That's what I was trying to say above.  They RL (RockerLogik) and TT (TwinTip) are different skis from the front of the running surface forward.  When skiing the running surface (on groomed slopes) they would be very similar since they have the same, construction, ski flex, and dimensions.  HOWEVER, in any conditions where the RL tip comes into play, they are different.  That, I believe, is where the stiffness that Dawg was describing becomes evident.  See my link from Oct. 27th here.


http://www.realskiers.smfnew.com/index.php/topic,1928.0.html

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:27:04 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2011, 07:47:40 pm »
I think what Max said plays a role here. The snow and the crud never gets hard here. We have some of the best snow quality in the country, light and fluffy and with cold temps as well. As well the skier count is always light. When you combine the lack of moisture in the snow with less people compacting it you never get the kind of chop and crud we get in Tahoe or the kind Max and Dawg are skiing every day at Bachelor.

I also think the TT and RL are different skis and it's possible that Dawg would not have had this issue at Bachelor on the TT's. Truthfully I don't really care because I am only going to ski mine in MT, but maybe one day I will take them up to Tahoe and then we will know for sure.

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 09:31:17 pm »
Yeah I put rail flex demos on the Chariots. I had a Power Rail as well but I decided I wanted the added stand height to help in tipping and potentially save the knees. I think I will use Power Rails on thinner skis.

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2011, 08:57:46 pm »
I had the Chariots out today in 8" of fresh. There were huge winds and at times I was skiing in knee deep and at times on some wind buff. The snow had much more moisture content than most snowfall in Montana. Chariots did not disappoint. The tips are just solid and nearly impossible to dive. I really like it as a powder ski. It's very easy to ski and the float rivals what some rockered skis get. As things got a little more cut up I had to abandon them because there were tons of exposed rocks on the some of the groomers heading back to the lift and I dinged them slightly and I didn't want to do anymore damage.

I switched to K2 Hardsides and I really liked the way this ski skied as well. Soft Snow is just fun and easy to ski!!

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot Mini Review
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 09:49:02 am »
Nice JB..still sounds like a better day than in the east!

Glad to hear you like the skis....there's gotta be an insurance company that can insure the finish.... :D

Chariots sound like a great ski to go from groomers, crud and then to Pow....it's versatility sounds perfect.

Some quick questions:

Does the shovel ride over and or through crud with no deflection?

How's the rebound off the tail.."kick in the pants", or "whenever I'm ready"?

During transitions, is the ski "patient" or impatient"?

Thanks, G