Author Topic: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!  (Read 1308 times)

seskelson

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 04:38:58 pm »
Sorry didn't get to finish the last post.  I really wonder about a couple of things.  One, I don't really mind being down in the powder, perhaps 90 mm in the waist ona ski is about tops for where I want to be, no matter how deep.  And two, the wide ones make my knees hurt and tire me out.  Also, for your info.  I am quite knock kneed.  I am aligned -- utilizing HSS system footbeds and one of Harald's friends and consultants in Salt Lake.  About a 4 degree cant on the right side.  Huge improvement and a real game changer.  Other info some folks inquried about:  age 58, height 5. 10" weight about 188.  Ski patroller.  My ski was the 175 or whatever is close to that in their line, sorry I' ve forgotten as I sit here typing.  Again, I think it is an excellent company and wish them much success.   Another patroller in Salt Lake bought it.  Well, best I can do for now to provide input.  Current arsenal:  Head M78, new Peak 84 Pro, Head Icon tt80  and two Scott Missions (one brand new for this year, the other two years old).

jbotti

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2011, 06:50:30 pm »
Yeah that's consistent with what Dawg was saying. If I find them to be the same I will probably sell them as well. I don't think it's the turn radius because I ski the Shaman in the 184 with an 18m TR and Max skis the 172 iwth a 15m TR and that ski does fine in crud. It is actually a bit stiffer than both of us want but not to the degree that we would say it beats us up. It is also wider than we both want and if I ski it multiple days in a row I definitely feel it in my knees some. It has to be the stiffness or the torsional rigidity.

I will again say that the ski does not hand flex like a ski that will be too stiff and having said that it is generally skis that are too soft that are problematic in crud. The Shaman 184's are tanks and they eat crud as they just bulldoze through it.

Clearly I will have to ski them and see what they are like. The last thing I need or want is a 101mm waisted carving ski. If it sucks in pow, chop and crud, it's not going to have many uses for me, because I am not going to take it out on a groomer day and destroy my knees arcing tight carved turns on it on hard snow (there are just too many other skis to do that on that will always be much more fun and a lot easier on the body!).

Liam

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2011, 05:42:22 am »
Sorry didn't get to finish the last post.  I really wonder about a couple of things.  One, I don't really mind being down in the powder, perhaps 90 mm in the waist ona ski is about tops for where I want to be, no matter how deep.  And two, the wide ones make my knees hurt and tire me out.  Also, for your info.  I am quite knock kneed.  I am aligned -- utilizing HSS system footbeds and one of Harald's friends and consultants in Salt Lake.  About a 4 degree cant on the right side.  Huge improvement and a real game changer.  Other info some folks inquried about:  age 58, height 5. 10" weight about 188.  Ski patroller.  My ski was the 175 or whatever is close to that in their line, sorry I' ve forgotten as I sit here typing.  Again, I think it is an excellent company and wish them much success.   Another patroller in Salt Lake bought it.  Well, best I can do for now to provide input.  Current arsenal:  Head M78, new Peak 84 Pro, Head Icon tt80  and two Scott Missions (one brand new for this year, the other two years old).

I hear good things about the Scott Mission--one of our local dealers loves them and I've been meaning to check them out.

Where do you Patrol?   Which of your skis get's the most use when you're working?  Over the years, I have found that for Sled and rescue work in heavy/ deep snow in bumps or in trees slightly softer, wider, twin tips (or at least skis with soft, easy releasing tails) are the golden ticket.

One thing I've always liked about Head's wider skis, is that they have always had fairly easy releasing (and very mildly twinned) tails--this was true with my old Head Monster 88's straight on up.   I ski the Dynastar 4x4 as my 70% ski, but it is a terrible patrolling ski (it is a great technical ski and east coast crud ski however).   

If I could find a ski that gave the user-friendly patrol ski feel of my icelantics, but had the technical skiing chops of my dynastars, I'd buy it on the spot...on paper, the Ullr's Chariot seems to fit that bill (though reviews other than Peter's make me hesistant so far). 

Thinking about maybe the 2012 Dynastar Legend 94's....

HighAngles

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2011, 01:19:30 pm »
Most of the comments on the original TT version of the Chariot ring true with my assessment.  It was surprisingly poor at handling crud and chop.  It has a heavier feel on snow, but it doesn't translate into greater stability.  That's surprising because on paper you would think that this ski should be better (due to the construction layup).

I've skied the TT version of the Chariot 3 different times under very different conditions - each time hoping for a better experience because I just love their graphics and what the company is trying to achieve.  I had a nice long convo with Dave Mazz at SIA last January and the guy clearly has a specific direction he's trying to take all of his models in.  I think he just needs to assemble a better group of testers to give him more accurate feedback.  Some of his new narrower designs are getting much better (Occam's Razor and Front Burner) while I still wasn't liking the TT Rave after a few times out on that one. 

I haven't yet skied any of the newer RL versions of his models.  Surprisingly they weren't out for the early season demos in CO.  The Rockstar looks like something I would enjoy on a deep day.  The DPS 112RP is the ski that convinced me that a wide "mustache" camber ski design can really work well if executed properly.

JBotti - given your appreciation for the Shaman, the Chariot may work out well for you.  You're significantly bigger than me and that will certainly alter what you get out of those skis.

For those looking for skis in the same realm without early rise or rocker look at Movement, Scott, and ZAG for models with tighter turn radii that can get the job done in deeper snow.

jbotti

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2011, 02:09:39 pm »

JBotti - given your appreciation for the Shaman, the Chariot may work out well for you.  You're significantly bigger than me and that will certainly alter what you get out of those skis.


Let's hope so!!

seskelson

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2011, 07:31:40 am »
Well, Liam asked for a bit more information about where I patrol and what I like.

Liam, I am at a small area outside Idhao Falls called Kelly Canyon.  About 1000 veritcal, but only 25 minutes from home.  But for the last 18 years I have also been an examiner for those patrollers taking their senior ski and toboggan test so I travel around quite a bit.  Beaver Mtn. near Logan, Utah where I grew up and  Alta and Targhee are favorites. 
The ski I use the most:  well, when I don't know what to expect or can only take one pair the M78 is it.  Although beginning last year I am really starting to like the Mission more al lthe time.  It has become my "fat" ski.  It is not "bouncy" or quick side to side as some skis might be - farily damp.  But when you tip it on edge it is very turney and for me really carves around.  And it is extremely forgiving.  It's what I call me hero ski - makes me look like a hero-- if that is even possible.   Works very well with a toboggan.
The Icon TT80, well-- just fun  and truly has helped my skiing.  It is all the things Harald Harb says about it.  Fellow patrollers notice the improvement in my turns last year with it.  If the snow is groomed or hard I use it all the time - and even into about 8 inches of powder.  And I just love standing their next to someone I just watched come down the hill skidding their big fatties sideways and then looking at my "little" Icons.  I'm kind of "counterculture". 

HighAngles

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 01:57:18 am »
The Scott Mission is a great underrated ski.  I think the Crusade is even better, but definitely more demanding where the Mission is more playful.

I like your term "counterculture" for those sporting skinny shaped skis - it really is getting to the point where, except for the racers, very few skiers are on anything less than about 85mm underfoot.  It's just such a huge disservice to so many skiers who basically can't buy a turn and now they have these huge skis that help them get through tougher snow conditions, but they're even farther from ever feeling the power and control from true high edge angle turns.

seskelson

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 08:53:23 am »
High Angles.  i agree the Mission is vastly underrated.  I had the Crusade last year.  Your asessment is spot on.  I liked it, just liked the Mission better and hence, a new Mission for this year to go with my two year old one.  The new one supposedly has a slightly lighter core.  We'll see.

bushwacka

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2011, 09:16:58 am »
The Scott Mission is a great underrated ski.  I think the Crusade is even better, but definitely more demanding where the Mission is more playful.

I like your term "counterculture" for those sporting skinny shaped skis - it really is getting to the point where, except for the racers, very few skiers are on anything less than about 85mm underfoot.  It's just such a huge disservice to so many skiers who basically can't buy a turn and now they have these huge skis that help them get through tougher snow conditions, but they're even farther from ever feeling the power and control from true high edge angle turns.


Alot of people are out their posing with their new mid fats or fatter skis that is for sure, but a small minority are pushing personal limits on wider boards at mountains that have natural terrain and natural conditions. Stuff that was unpossible on the first carving skis and not that easy on the early 'fat" skis like the explosive, axiom and pocket rocket.  Especially in the east where the snow in more vaiable and the terrain is MUCH tighter. My average run at stowe is more technically demanding than my average run at snowbird. i have skied more at each of these resorts than anyone on this board.

LivingProof

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2011, 10:16:33 am »

Alot of people are out their posing with their new mid fats or fatter skis that is for sure, but a small minority are pushing personal limits on wider boards at mountains that have natural terrain and natural conditions. Stuff that was unpossible on the first carving skis and not that easy on the early 'fat" skis like the explosive, axiom and pocket rocket.  Especially in the east where the snow in more vaiable and the terrain is MUCH tighter. My average run at stowe is more technically demanding than my average run at snowbird. i have skied more at each of these resorts than anyone on this board.

Bushwacker,
Reading the above, I thought of a recent post by Helluva where he offered some comments about 'all mountain" skis. His thinking was that if a specific skier selects a specfic ski to ski specific terrain, then, it's akin to the saying about "using the right tool for the right job". You have also posted that at the 'bird you choose different skis, understandable. Just guessing, but, I would assume your Stowe ski can change depending on the conditions that day.

There is no doubt, in my mind, that skis you select to ski Stowe backcounty provide the best possible tool for those conditions. If I ever get to join in, I'd like very much to use a ski that you recommend (after figuring it out a little bit on easier terrain). The question remains about my skills being able to marry up to that ski in that terrain. We all know I'd struggle, but, given enough repetitions, I hope I'd figure it out.


bushwacka

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2011, 11:15:03 am »
How you define technical?

by skill,thought, nerve and amount of effort. Your know more technical. A run though 3000 vertical of eastern trees is going to much harder from all of those stand points than your average run at Snowbird.

@ LP My snowbird skis tend to be longer straight and have more camber than my stowe off piste skis which tend to me short more sidecut and more rocker.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Arrival: Ski Logik Chariots!!
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2011, 09:09:16 pm »
I think 50 foot drops probably qualifies in the nerve category and the terrain category.
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