Author Topic: Kastle FX94 vs. Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot ski recommendation  (Read 1656 times)

mmiller

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Kastle FX94 vs. Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot ski recommendation
« on: January 27, 2011, 06:36:55 pm »
I am real ...

I'm interested in thoughts on the Kastle FX94 vs Ski Logic Ullr's Chariot.? I've read the reviews for each on RealSkiers.? I've been skiing the Kastle MX78 for last two seasons, and just switched to the RX12.? I have been amazed with the Kastle's and thus I'm a bit biased towards the FX94s .... challenge is I've had them on order now for a couple of months and the current estimate is I'm not likely to get them until sometime in mid to late Sep.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 09:49:26 pm by jim-ratliff »


jim-ratliff

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Miike:

Welcome.? There has been a lot of discussion about the Ullr's Chariot here.? See the thread not too far down

I bought a pair and really like them.? My priority was a ski that had a wider waist but didn't give up to much on the groomed slopes, and they have lived up to that.? They aren't a powder ski and they aren't a front side carver, but they do everything pretty well and seem to excel in skied up powder.? They are a pretty beefy in the way they ski, I need to be moving pretty good in order to really bend them on groomed slopes; on softer slopes the width of the tip helps a lot with the bending and they are pretty maneuvarable in trees and in soft snow.

I'm sure others will post with the Kastle feedback, but they seem to be universally great skis; if you like the feel of the MX78 it is likely that you will also like the feel of the FX94 and there is a lot to be said for that.? The FX might even be a little bit softer than the MX78.

Do you have the ability to demo.? Ski Logik has a few dealers, mostly in Colorado-- check out their web page.? Maybe you should check around other Kastle dealers to see if they have the same FX94 availability constraints.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 09:59:16 pm by jim-ratliff »
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jbotti

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Be careful with the FX line because it is designed differently than the MX line. I bought the FX 84 last year. It is a very nice ski but it isn't what I like in a ski. I should have bought a ski in the MX line. The FX is designed for backcountry skiing and they are lighter, have less metal and they are designed for the tips to hook up much slower (and they do!!). If you love the MX 78 you may not love the FX 94. You may be better off with the MX 98 or MX 88.

For me, the lightness was OK, but I was using it inbounds so I didn't need it and I like a heavier ski. The lack of meta was again OK, and the skis were reasonably stable at speed, but they were not unshakable at speed. At the end of the day, the delay in the tips hooking up just drove me crazy. I sold my skis. Don't get me wrong, it is a beautifully made ski and they did a super job of making a ligher but stable backcountry oriented ski. If that is what you are looking for, go for it. If you are looking for a wider MX 78, the FX is the wrong ski.

Jim is the resident expert on the Chariot and I have never skied it so I add less than zero there.

Hope that helps.

Ron

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the 78 is a superb ski as you know, the FX line was desgined and intended to be more of a touring descentist ski as the FX94 is Chris davenports design.  As John correctly said, they are going to be much different in feel and performance. The mx88 is an option for sure, it really has all of the performance envelope of the fx94 but with the same basic feel and performance of the mx78.  There is a new MX 90 something ski coming out next season i believe, Phil can talk more about that.  Jim is the UC expert here.

mmiller

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Thank you for splitting my post out to a new thread and for the feedback. ?

The widest ski I've ever been on is the MX78. ?I added the Kastle RX12 this season (70mm) and want to get something for deeper powder days. ?I actually like the RX12 better in powder than the MX78, but so far it's mostly been light 5 to 10 inch powder days. ?I'm selling the 78s and just looking to add a ski for days when the powder is a little deeper. ?My days of hiking are behind me, but I've heard good things about the light, quick feel of the FX94 in the powder. ?I definitely will not be using it as an everyday ski.

I've worked with the same local shop (Sport Loft) in SLC for years. ?Their recommendations on equipment have been spot on, and they carry both the Ski Logik and Kastle. ?

The late engagement of the tips ... Is that just on groomed and light powder or is that in deeper powder (12+).
 
Additional background ... I'm 49 years old, spent most all of my 30s and 40s skiing with the kids and have just in the last few seasons gotten back out on my own, I'm skiing about 30 to 40 days a season, 5'10" and 160lbs. ?I'm sure I have some old, bad habits that I need to get rid of, but I'm having a great time all over the mountain ... I've been told I'm a solid 7 to 8, but I'm also really looking to get out with someone whose eye and ability to instruct is a lot more discerning. ?I had a lesson a few years ago at Park City, but It felt like the guy was more used to teaching beginners.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 07:48:18 am by mmiller »

Ron

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I would suggest demoing the MX88 then. Looks like you prefer narrow skis so I would suggest the 88's,  You can also check out a Sultan 94 as another option. 

jbotti

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As for thr delay in teh tips hooking up, it exists both on groomers and off piste and in powder, but the only place you will really notice is is on hard snow. Here the delay is quite distinct. In powder that delay is fine and some people like it. It prevents the ski from being "Hooky". I like skis that others call hooky.

Gary

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Mmiller......you have peaked my curiosity....the RX12 with 70 underfoot is better in powder than the MX78?....I also have the MX78 and ski it as my hard snow, crud buster...balls to the wall GS ripper and boot high pow ski....for me it hits it out of the park in all these areas.

Please share you experiences on the RX12 in comparision to the MX78....

I might add rather than just limiting your scouting to kastle and Ski Logic....I think you might find as has been discussed here some other great skis made by Dynastar, Rossignol...to mention a few.

that 84 to 100 mm underfoot has some superior products we have bantered on....might be worth the look to see which one fills that gap in your ski quivver.

Best, Gary

ps if you ever get a chance to work with Harold Harb and or John Clendenin....I know you won't be disappointed.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 01:28:00 pm by Gary »

Ron

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you mean like this Gary? 


I would suggest demoing the MX88 then. Looks like you prefer narrow skis so I would suggest the 88's,? You can also check out a Sultan 94 as another option. 

Gary

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a huh, a yup....


mmiller

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Hey Gary,

Yeah, I was really surprised by how much I liked the RX in a few inches to about a boots worth of powder.  The MX78 is great in powder, and in fact I was planning on keeping it around to ski on mixed days ... that is, until I skied the RX on a powder day.  My one complaint with the MX78 was that I had to put a lot of focus and energy into watching my fore / aft and lateral balance in skied out powder and crud ... you know that feeling of instant acceleration and braking.  There was that, and as I said both fore / aft and lateral were always something I had to stay on top of with the 78s.

I have about 4 days in powder on the RXs.  A mix of depths of about 4 to 5 inches to just above the top of my boot; as well as a mix conditions ranging from amazingly fluffing white UT smoke (I just love it when it's 6 to 8 degrees and dumps) and in heavy, dense powder on a 36 to 40 degree day.  What I experienced with the RX was that even as the powder was skied out (or dense and heavy), nothing seemed to deflect it.  It was point, shoot, go ... and overall it just seemed to plow (cut) through anything and everything.  If you like to float on top, it's not going to do it for you; though I've typically always enjoyed being down in the powder.

On piste, take everything you like about the MX78 and amp it up ... that's the RX.  I didn't think it possible to find a ski I like better than the MX78, but I'd heard from a few how amazing the RX is and decided to go for it.  I have no regrets, and as mentioned I'm shocked by how much I've enjoyed them in the powder.

I'm still looking at the FX94s, Ullr's Chariot or something similar as there are those days when it is so deep that if I don't get up out of the powder, well, then I can't breath and I just about have to go in a straight line to cary enough speed to have fun!  I can't imagine ever skiing on some of these monster skis I see some of the young kids on.  On the deepest powder day I've had on the RXs, I skied a few runs with some teenagers that had skis that were so wide (must have been 115 to 130s) that it looked like a snowboard on each foot, which did not look fun at all to me.

Thanks again to all for the recommendations.  I have picked up the HH book and videos as well as Clendenin book.   As I said, I'm sure I have lots of nasty, old habits to get rid of; though I've been surprised by how much I've liked getting rid of (or at least trying to) the up move in my transitions.  It really does help with much quicker transitions.  I hope (and feel like) I'm headed in the right direction, but I want to find a good instructor, get to a good camp or figure out a good way to make sure I really am.   ;)

Gary

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Hey Mike...I see what your saying and having said that....I must hitch a ride on the RX..

I don't know what your weight is? or how you ski but there is a lot of "kick a poo juice" in the 78. You have to ski it or it will ski you...wondering if the RX requires less attention???

Another thing I did with the MX was to play around with binding locations...I found moving it forward really allowed me to pilot it so much better.For me it skis much more compliant from a forward mount. My height at 5 ft 8 and weight at 160lbs may have something to do with that.? I also like the crud busting ability of the 78 underfoot with my other ski being 98 underfoot, and the curd and broken snow is what I  look to ski...some of my favorite, ....so for me, the 78 and 98 provided a pretty good ski spectrum for most ski conditions.

I'll see if I can get a demo on the RX and compare.

Good get on the Harb Clendenon connection....2 of the best in my opinion. Lots of great info in the books and video's. I found watching their videos in slow motion really helped alot.

Good luck on your hunt for that 90/100 underfoot and keep us posted.

Thanks, Gary
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 06:19:04 pm by Gary »

mmiller

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I'm 5'10" and about 160 lbs.  In my experience, the RX is even more energetic than the MX78s.  It has an ash wood core versus the mixed ash and silver fur of the 78, and the base and top sheet metal layers are .8mm versus the .5mm of the 78.  The difference is evident in skiing the RXs -- 'kick-a-poo' juice that you mentioned is amped up, which I love!  The edge bite and grip on ice is awe inspiring.  We had one day here a couple of weeks ago that was 40 degrees at the resort, and the next day it was 11 degrees.  Some of the iciest stuff I've skied in UT.

It takes more energy and a bit more aggressive skiing to really bend up, load the RXs; though overall I actually have found it an easier ski to ski.  I've heard that it is less forgiving, and I can see how that could be the case especially if the skier has a tendency to let balance shift aft.

A demo day on the RXs is definitely worthwhile.  This year they're the RX12s, but the exact same ski can be had from previous model years and is called just the "RX."  Name was changed to RX12 this year as Kastle added the RX SL slalom ski.

I'd appreciate any additional recommendations on a UT based instructor, camp or other options for improvement.  I've looked at the PMTS camps, but as much as I like the videos and the book ... the info on the PMTS websites is a mess.  From what I can tell the camps sell out well in advance and are only held in Colorado.  I hear the skiing in Colorado sucks compared to UT.   ;) ::) >:D

Perry

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? I hear the skiing in Colorado sucks compared to UT.? ?;) ::) >:D

Welcome to the board, you will fit in here just fine!

jim-ratliff

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Mike: The big appeal of the Ullr's Chariots is the waist width combined with a short turn radius.? For me, that makes it a very versatile ski to lug all the way from Virginia but it doesn't make it a powder ski. You may also want to demo the Howitzer if you are wanting more powder specific performance. I will say for me, there was a lot of difference between a mid 80's waist and the UC's. I had been skiing a Fischer Watea 84 for a couple of years before deciding to gp even wider. Just for that reason you may want to stay in the 80's.

However, I'm a big supporter of finding a ski advice source that you can relate to and/or knows you well as a skier, and it sounds like you have that with your local shop.? Demo the Ullrs Chariot (if they think its a good ski for you) and also demo the MX88 and compare your personal feel to what the shop people say. Make sure they have skied those skis,? ask them their thoughts, that should give you lots of insight about their FX94 recommendation since you can't demo them.? Its a bit unusual for a shop to recommend a ski that they don't have in stock and can't sell (and I mean that in a positive way).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:37:46 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Gary

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Mike...more juice than the MX78.....hmmmm....n o for me than. Still worth the demo so we can compare notes. Now as far as your ash vs my ash and silver fir...that is a whole other story!!!
Similarly, I've found the 78 with a good tune solid on ice but can see the advantage of the RX in those conditions.

Since we are the same weight I'm curious to see have it compares  energy in energy out. A demo is in order.

Jim....I too want to demo the Chariot....just going to be hard to find.

Hey Mike...I hear skiing out west sucks everywhere....good ole New York is the place to ski baby!!! >:D

Best, g

mmiller

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Jim, thanks for the additional info on the Ullr's.  Your comments are consistent with what I've heard from others.  The local shop is suggesting the FX94s.  Their recommendations have historically been very good. 

When I started skiing sans kids a few years ago, I took my Solomon Equipe 2s ... yes, from I believe 1996 or so ... in for a tune.  I'd bought them at the same shop.  They laughed and told me it was time for new skis and boots.  That's when they put me in the Kastle MX78s, as I told them I didn't want to rebuild an entire quiver of skis.

After experiencing the RXs, I'm back to wanting 'fit/designed for purpose' skis with minimal compromise.

Gary, demo the RXs.  Based on what you've described about what you like about the MX78s, you'll be hooked!

Perry

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I would think that you might like to demo the S3, the Blizzard one, Watea 98, as well as the UC.  They are all very good skis.  There is a good thread on Epic by Dawgcatching who is a respected reviewer that reviews many of the skis in this 90-100 size.  Unfortunately he did not have access to the UC.  Here are some links.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/99802/killer-98-s-2011-dynastar-6th-sense-slicer-blizzard-the-one-fischer-watea-98

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/97886/2011-big-mountain-ski-reviews-100mm-and-fun-shape-skis

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/98203/2011-mid-fat-ski-reviews-80-100mm-waist-skis

gandalf

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I'd appreciate any additional recommendations on a UT based instructor, camp or other options for improvement.?? I hear the skiing in Colorado sucks compared to UT.? ?;) ::) >:D

Mike:? Peter Keelty (who provides this web site) is based in Utah (primarily at Snowbird) and still does some coaching and teaching.? And, he is probably known by the guys at Sport Loft.? He knows Harald Harb and includes Harald's opinion of skis on the pay site, and also worked with John Clendenin in the development of his book.  He's not PMTS certified, but he's local; unless he's gotten out of teaching in the past few years.? Ask the ownerof Sport Loft and see what they say?? At the very least, I would trust anyone that Peter recommended from the Utah area.

Jim
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:58:23 pm by jim-ratliff »

mmiller

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Thanks Perry,  I'll check them out.  I appreciate the suggestions.

Gandalf,  good suggestion.  I heard from Peter and we're going to get up skiing in a couple of weeks.

Conclusion from most seems to be that the FX94 and Ullr's are very different skis.  I'll wait and make a decision after I've skied with Peter and hopefully get out for a day or so on various skis.

mmiller

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p.s.  Who else on the board is from UT?

Perry

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This board is small but fun.  It can be slow at times.  The good part is that you generally get to know the folks here.  We are all avid (if not great) skiers.  I find that for me, I can trust opinions here better because I know the people who are voicing them better.  The EPIC site is bigger, busier, and more varied in terms of who is on etc.  I like them both but they serve different functions for me.  Both are useful.

midwif

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Mostly mid-atlantic to northeasterners on the board here.
J.Botti from the other seaboard.

A few migratory souls and many wanna be  UT/Co ites.

Many of us here have skied together at one time or another, so know each others skiing type.

Welcome!

Lynn
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Philpug

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I have skied both and the Kastle is more precise and accurate, the Chariot is more playful with some of the most original graphics ever put on a ski.

mmiller

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Thanks Phil, that's fairly consistent with what I've heard.  I'm hoping to get up on both the Kastle's and the Ski Logiks in the next couple of weeks.  The Ullr's Chariot custom top sheet at the Sport Loft here in SLC is beautiful.  Quite a contrast to the minimalist white of the MX and RX Kastle's I've been skiing the last few years!

jim-ratliff

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Thanks Phil, that's fairly consistent with what I've heard.? I'm hoping to get up on both the Kastle's and the Ski Logiks in the next couple of weeks.? The Ullr's Chariot custom top sheet at the Sport Loft here in SLC is beautiful.? Quite a contrast to the minimalist white of the MX and RX Kastle's I've been skiing the last few years!

The neat thing is that you can get any of their topsheets on any of their skis, just have to order it.
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