Author Topic: New ski purchase  (Read 641 times)

Perry

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New ski purchase
« on: December 29, 2010, 07:26:08 pm »
I now have some $$$ in my Paypal account and I am serious about an out west ski.  I have narrowed down to the
Sultan 94 184cm
Blizzard One 184
Ullr's Chariot 186

So here are my questions,
Ron - I would love to know your advise about coming to Steamboat with the intention of demoing some or all of these and then buying one.  Most shops will let you deduct the cost of demo from the price of the ski.  Do you know shops with at least the Sultan and the One that I could compare these skis and then buy.  Any other suggestions you have I am all ears.  You are obviously much better at this than me >:D

Jim - Tell me why I should buy the chariot  ;D 
I am an open book - go ahead and weigh in.

Phil - if you want to tempt me, well that is up to you >:D

All other advise is welcome and thanks

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jim-ratliff

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2010, 09:07:02 pm »
OK, here goes.? You should NOT buy the ski just because Jim likes his.

I buy skis pretty much the same way I buy cars ('cept I usually keep cars much longer).? I've become convinced that most people really can't tell much about a car by a test drive. They all feel pretty good because they are new and what I've been driving is 6 or 7 years old.? So I've come to trust the reviews in Motor Trend because the cars they enjoy are usually cars I enjoy.? I bought my RAV4 with a V6 because I wanted the performance and the EPA gas mileage ratings were comparable with the 4 (and it only required regular gas).? I think all (or almost all) of the other cars required premium, didn't offer a powerful engine, or were turbocharged (which requires premium).

Correlation.? Over the years, my most liked skis have been ones that Realskiers made a ski of the year, either overall or in a category AND that they praised for their versatility AND that had the green skier icon. And a couple of times one of the comments was that they helped the skier make better turns (Head iC160, Head iM78, Head SuperShape Magnum).? I also owned the Head iM77 that wasn't very highly rated and that didn't have the green skier icon and found they were not at all a good ski for me.?

So my approach now is to not listen too much to others opinions unless you have some correlation between what you like and what they like.? And that was the key for me, I feel I can trust the reviews on Realskiers and I know what the correlation keys are for me.

You should NOT buy the ski because Jim likes his. However, the fact that I really like my SuperShape Magnums (and you have the same ski and like it) and I enjoyed the Watea 84's (and you seemed to like them as well when you borrowed them at Aspen, even though they were too short) may mean there is some correlation between our skiing styles and/or our current skill levels.

I will say that the Watea 84 or the iM78 was a better ski for me when I was mostly sking groomed and venturing off-piste and into the trees part of the time.? I would not recommend the UC for that distribution.? The Ullr's Chariot made sense to me because I wanted to enjoy off-piste more 70/40? without giving up much when on groomed trails (versatility). That was the combination I was looking for, a wide ski with versatility to help me grow into new terrain.? I had found it difficult to rent a good wide ski on a powder day, but it should be easy to rent a narrow ski if the western trails are too firm.

On our last trip to colorado, the first day at Keystone was all groomed and the UC's were just ok (also my first day on skis). The second day at Breck we were 90/10 groomed but there was 4-6 inches of new snow and it snowed all day, so they were pretty good and I didn't notice the extra width. The next day at Vail there had been 14" or so the night before and we spent 80% of the day off piste, and I became an amazing skier in those conditions (all due to the skis).? The fourth day was Vail again, less time in the bowls and more time in the trees and the skis were still heroes.

So, in summary, don't listen to Jim because he's not an authoritative source.
=====================================
But RealSkiers says:
If not the most versatile ski we have ever tested, it is certainly in the top ten. This may be the elusive "universal" ski. The ski handles deep snow, crud, chop, hard snow, speed and reasonable bumps with ease; always reliable, never unpredictable or difficult to handle.

We could fill a page with positive tester comments; here are but a few:

"Very fun and can be pushed to do whatever you are willing to do."

"A truly great off piste ski that could actually be used in a GS course. Great in bumps, too."

"WOW! Amazing fun ski!"

"Yeah, Buddy! everything ski!"

"Superb on hard pack and even frozen rope slush. Incredible!"

And on and on, including the ultimate accolade: "I bought them on the spot!"

Perhaps best is simply to say that it lives up to its name.
(Ullr is the Norse god of skiing . . .)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:49:56 am by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2010, 09:22:53 pm »
 
My paper analysis of the other skis for me follows, but that is really just my way of looking at them.? Others opinions will obviously vary, and I haven't skied them.

Sultan 94. 18m turn radius, no green skier icon,only big mountain icons - no bump icon?
Blizzard One.? 18m turn radius, does have green skier icon, terrain icons are all off-trail - no bump icon
UC.? 15m radius (even in your length, not just in the reference length), green skier icon, terrain icons for 1) deep powder 2) groomed/hard snow 3)big mountain freeride 4) hard snow/western "ice" 5) mild bumps/crud/uneven chop.

Obviously having or not having an icon doesn't say you can't ski a particular terrain, it's just a knowledgeable group of skiers saying how well/easily it will handle that terrain.?

=====================================================

The following is from the RealSkiers Blizzard 8.1 which I just happened to look at as I was gathering information above, and would be comments that I would find attractive. 17m radius, green skier icon, big mountain and groomed icons (waist width too close to your Magnums, just an example of comments that I look for).
Another of our favorite Blizzards. Although we catagorize it as a big mountain carver, it is also very responsive and solid on the groomed or even hard snow and ice. Excellent 1-ski-quiver material; extremely versatile.
"Smooth ride, easy turning, good even for intermediate working on skills."
Along similar lines, another skier commented that, "This ski helped my high speed turn entry."

====================================================

By the way, when we were last at Steamboat there was a Yurt at the top of the Gondola that demoed skis, and they were associated with one of the stores at the bottom.? Lynn talked to the guys at the bottom and selected a ski she wanted to demo that they didn't have at the top, and they had it at the yurt the next day.? Very convenient location to ski by, swap skis, and then ski off again without having to ski all the way down the mountain to a shop at the base. I think she demoed three pair of skis the one day, including some they recommended that weren't on her list.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 04:39:24 am by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 04:30:08 am »
Perry:? Tired of reading yet?? ???? ???

So I think the Ullr's Chariot is the best overall ski for you for the next 5 years.
It will help you grow just as it is me, will handle those magical 2 hours of a powder morning as well as the other 6 hours of skied up snow and bumps;
and those majority of days when there isn't any new snow or when you choose to stay on the groomed with Gloria.
And they will feel very much like your Magnums.

And you can't minimize the cachet of having "HEALER" engraved on the tails.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 07:35:13 am by jim-ratliff »
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Ron

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 05:08:58 am »
well there ya' go......

btw- the one is very good in the bumps.....  as much as I like Peter I often find the reviews not so accurate. the one is also a very different ski in that it is rockered tip/tail and although it does ski groomed very well, you aren't buying it to ski the groomed. Its very similar to a S3 and the Dynastar 6th Slicer.  As far as Steamboat rentals go, Sportstalker (Christy's) at the base and Chad Flieshers (new shop in One Steamboat) are good spots for demos. I would recommend that you do an all day demo and ski each one at least an hour or so to really understand the ski. BTW- Chad Fleisher is a former US Ski team and WC member he's in the store all the time. OR f in doubt, just call Phil and buy what he says......   ;D

Philpug

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 11:39:11 am »
I can't help with the UC, but I can with the other skis in the ones (no Pun) mentioned at a discounted price, let me know. If you want the ski, the price will be good.

Perry

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 11:55:44 am »
Jim,
I agree with much of what you are saying and it is helpful for me to hear it all put together, so thanks. ?The ski really does appeal to me both visually and by what I am reading about it. The wide application and apparent big sweet spot make a good choice as my first fatty. That said, it is a lesser known entity and there are all those other skis out there and that can make me crazy with conflicting thoughts. ?The good news is that all the skis I mentioned are great skis that I am sure I would enjoy.

I would go crazy trying to find the PERFECT ski, because it is always just over the next slope. ?You have made me recommit to demo the UC, esp if I can try it at both 178 and 188 (as tall as me and 150 at the tip) ?Hey, I can use them to ski on the lake in the summer (would make a good youtube video ?>:D)

Ron,
Very helpful as usual. ?Nothing like local knowledge. ?Your perspective is intriguing to me because you are about 3-4 years ahead of me in your progression to ski the whole mountain (the distance is growing constantly due to your # of days on the slope compared to me). You are constantly checking out the benefits of new ski development and there is a lot I can learn from you. ?The rocker wave is part of my dilemma. Do I jump on that wave and how much. ?In the end - this is mindless speculation until I demo. ?Still helpful to help me narrow down to 2-3 skis - hard to demo and evaluate many more than that.

Everyone else feel free to jump in.

Perry

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 11:57:48 am »
I can't help with the UC, but I can with the other skis in the ones (no Pun) mentioned at a discounted price, let me know. If you want the ski, the price will be good.

Always good to know and thanks!  If I find something out at the Boat, that is not the UC, I will let you know.  What is your number?  FREE ADVERTISEMENT

Ron

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 12:55:05 pm »
http://shop.starthaus.com/store/pc/home.asp

866) 582-5781

Rockered or not to rocker.....  Well they have come a long way and there will undoubtedly keep evolving. Its a matter of taste. You may find you don't care for them or like a specific kind or profile. For mostly groomed or some soft, I don't personally see a "must have' reason for that kind of profile. My Kaslte 88's are still in quiver for sure.

LivingProof

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2010, 01:06:55 pm »
@ Jim
Your posts above are both thoughtful and generous. I am really glad that you got to use the new skis so early in the season and in the conditions for which they were bought. Enjoy them for a long time. It?s so nice to be on a ski that makes one smile.

@ Perry
There is a lot of truth in what Ron stated about calling Phil to discuss your needs and what he can do for you. Start Haus, I think, preps their skis so you would be getting a finally tuned western soft snow ski that would serve your needs as a more occasional skier of those conditions. This is similar to the trust that Jim placed in Peter Kelty?s review of the Chariot.

Do you want to spend your ski week demo?ing skis or learning how get it on with the one Phil picks for you? When anyone gets to ski pow and soft snow as much as Ron, then do all the fine tuning required to get the perfect ski, but, in the mean time?pick one.

And if you buy from Phil, you may hate the ski, but, think about all the bragging you can do about such a great deal ;D. Hell, if you buy one from him, and, don?t like it, I?ll be demo?ing the Blizz and Dyna when I?m with him in Tahoe in Feb.,so maybe a future deal in the works. Think like Ron  >:D. He never really owns a ski, he just demo?s over a longer period.

Forget all the above if you?re a perfectionist.



Philpug

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 01:08:29 pm »
I DO have a pair of *tempting* MX98's 178cm mounted with griffons for 990 shipped. These have about 3 runs on them. Basically getting a free pair of Griffons.

Ron

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 01:16:11 pm »
That's a rippin' good deal!  Nice ski, I skied that one in April with Phil in vail.  A lot of fun and a very versitile ski too!

Mike, that's a good way to describe my skis; although I still have my kastle 78's and 88's.....  I know I will ski the rest of the season on the One's and the Bent Chetlers. Especially the Benny's. That is an incredible ski. 

jim-ratliff

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 03:33:41 pm »

Perry:  Here is a review from Epic Ski.  You can read (or ignore) the first review.  He posted this review in lots of places back in March.
However, towards the bottom is a recent review by a regular skier that I think is pretty accurate from my perspective.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/92871/review-skilogik-ullr-s-chariot-go-girl-rave-2010
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Perry

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2011, 12:38:45 pm »
Wow,
Great input and ideas.  Sorry I have been so slow to respond, I had a bunch of stuff to do at the end of the year, mostly documenting my 50 hours of continuing education required each year.  I got to ski yesterday on a poor eastern snow day, but it was great to be on the skis.

Mike,
your point about not spending vacation messing with demos is a powerful and valuable point.  A helpful suggestion that I will weigh against the value of demo before you buy

Phil,
you are likely to get a call sometime soon.  I think talking to you with the back and forth that affords will help me.  The deal on the Kastle's is extra nice and definitely tempting.  I am not sure about the length for me.  Does that ski have an early rise tip?

Jim,
I re-read that thread.  It really summarizes my dilemma.   I read the review and was ready to buy the UC - the points about the craftsmanship are persuasive, then read Noodler's posts about the benefit of rocker and it really makes me think.  Here is the bottom line, for most conditions the UC will be pretty darn good.  But if you are at Steamboat, Snowbasin, etc. and you happen to get DUMPED ON, those days that everybody watches video on and wishes to be in, are you wishing you had a little rocker on your ski tip.  I have been in that situation before, out in Vail twice with big snows and on skis that really couldn't take advantage of it. They were great days but would have been hugely improved with the right ski.  The last time I had to quit way early (4 feet of new snow on the SS magnum) my legs were shot by 1PM.

Here is another big part of my history that affects my thought process.  I once demoed a bunch of skis including the Dynastar 8000 and ended up buying the Head IM 75 (which I couldn't demo) based on the realskiers recommendation.  The problem was that I really loved the 8000 and regretted not buying it later.  The Monster was still a great ski and held their value - just sold them on Ebay for $200, but I think for me, the 8000 would have been the ski.

I keep going back to the Sultan 95 in part because of that but of course that doesn't make any real sense, different skis, different times, different options.

Anyway, I have indulged you all too long with my ramblings.  Your input has been very helpful and I appreciate it.  Jim, I only hope that if I don't go with the UC that someday we can swap skis an a nice day and have some fun together.  In the end, that is what it is all about and what causes me to love this sport enough to do all this research.

Philpug

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Re: New ski purchase
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2011, 09:52:11 am »

Phil,
you are likely to get a call sometime soon.? I think talking to you with the back and forth that affords will help me.? The deal on the Kastle's is extra nice and definitely tempting.? I am not sure about the length for me.? Does that ski have an early rise tip?

Here is another big part of my history that affects my thought process.? I once demoed a bunch of skis including the Dynastar 8000 and ended up buying the Head IM 75 (which I couldn't demo) based on the realskiers recommendation.? The problem was that I really loved the 8000 and regretted not buying it later.? The Monster was still a great ski and held their value - just sold them on Ebay for $200, but I think for me, the 8000 would have been the ski.

I keep going back to the Sultan 95 in part because of that but of course that doesn't make any real sense, different skis, different times, different options.

Anyway, I have indulged you all too long with my ramblings.? Your input has been very helpful and I appreciate it.? Jim, I only hope that if I don't go with the UC that someday we can swap skis an a nice day and have some fun together.? In the end, that is what it is all about and what causes me to love this sport enough to do all this research.

The MX98 does have early rise. I will say while the Sultan 94 says it does, it does has "marketing rise", minimal at most. As far as length, how big of a guy are you?