Author Topic: VIST bindings and plates  (Read 1216 times)

AndrewR

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VIST bindings and plates
« on: December 24, 2006, 08:33:06 am »
Why given that VIST provide about 80% of the race plates in the world of top level skiing is the brand so under represented within the recreational ski community in the USA? I cannot see, other than perhaps price, why anyone would want to put a fairly average set of Tyrolia bindings on something like a Stockli or Blizzard Titan when one could put a VIST plate and binding (and if travelling frequently) or the Speedlock system onto one's skis?

Any thoughts? (arguments also welcome)

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jim-ratliff

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2006, 01:21:21 pm »

I would guess price and marketing budget.  The current philosophy of ski manufacturers is to "make it easy" for the user by promoting systems (binding integrated with the ski) and many of these systems do have some pretty tangible benefits.  But the most tangible benefit is that the ski manufacturer gets more of the sale. That eliminates 75% of the market.  Of those people buying non-system skis, "what binding names do they recognize?" and that is strictly a function of marketing dollars spent in America trying to build name recognition. 

Either VIST doesn't have the necessary dollars or (more likely) doesn't see selling to the 'generic skier' customer as a cost effective market they can penetrate.  I would imagine that, among higher end skiers and NASTAR racers VIST has a pretty good market share.  I believe they do some teaming with manufacturers, because I think some of the Head (for example) race skis come with VIST plates?
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stekan

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2006, 10:10:20 am »
I cannot see, other than perhaps price, why anyone would want to put a fairly average set of Tyrolia bindings on something like ...

One of the reasons could be proven reliability. After more than twenty years on fairly average Tyrolias without a single prerelease or any other problem, why should I experiment with Vist bindings? For me, Vist bindings are for those who are buying Bogner skis.

AndrewR

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 04:47:56 pm »
I know that this is a 'hook' but I have to reply. Unless one is using a the rail system which allows movement of the binding in order to put BOF of COB then the Tyrolia binding results in a pretty average effect, not actually anything wrong with the binding but more the binding/ ski relationship, perhaps I have been too much a victim of shops placing the binding in the manufacturers recommended position which is generally too far back assuming that most skiiers cannot ski the tails of the skis. I agree that some of the integrated systems (ie Volkl) really do work.

jbotti

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 09:24:23 am »
Andrew, I am always looking to improve my set up. Why do you like the Vist plates and bindings so much? Why are the bindings and plates superior in your opinion? Are the plates generally thicker (20mm vs 13mm) than most race plates from the major manufactuters?

Honsetly, I have never noticed a binding when skiing. I do notice the placement of the binding and obviously the feel of a plate vs. a flat binding is very noticeable.

I would love to hear your thoughts. JB.

stekan

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 05:03:37 am »
I know that this is a 'hook' but I have to reply. Unless one is using a the rail system which allows movement of the binding in order to put BOF of COB then the Tyrolia binding results in a pretty average effect, not actually anything wrong with the binding but more the binding/ ski relationship, perhaps I have been too much a victim of shops placing the binding in the manufacturers recommended position which is generally too far back assuming that most skiiers cannot ski the tails of the skis. I agree that some of the integrated systems (ie Volkl) really do work.

Interesting views.
 
I?m not aware of effects of ski bindings. Compared with Tyrolia?s pretty average effect, a can assume that Vist have outstanding effect. Are we talking here about colors?

So, Vist bindings can?t be mounted too far back in the shops? Maybe I missed the point. My English is far from perfection.

I still prefer more Tyrolia and Look than Marker bindings. It?s a pity that I can?t use them on V?lkl skis.

AndrewR

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 10:40:41 pm »
Andrew, I am always looking to improve my set up. Why do you like the Vist plates and bindings so much? Why are the bindings and plates superior in your opinion? Are the plates generally thicker (20mm vs 13mm) than most race plates from the major manufactuters?

Honsetly, I have never noticed a binding when skiing. I do notice the placement of the binding and obviously the feel of a plate vs. a flat binding is very noticeable.

I would love to hear your thoughts. JB.


Apologies for delay in replying but we have been moving from UK to Colorado.

Re VIST. I like the fact that the plates appear to dampen the ride, but allow direct transmission of the skiers intention to the ski. The TT I use is 19mm think but has a quite forgiving nature (ie does not stiffen the effect of the ski). The Race plate is 18mm thick and a marked difference in power transmission (very direct and sensitive) but still dampens the ride (although this could partly be the Stockli effect). As a travelling type I also like the fact that I can take the bindings off the plate for a more compact and less damage prone package and I can have three sets of skis but only need one set of bindings. As stated I can also experiment with forward or aft BOF placement for varying conditions and, because I do have two sets of bindings I can demo anyone of my skis to friends or clients with potential for sales so that hopefully I do not have to pay anything for my skis next season.

Do not get me wrong I have had many a good days skiing on Volkl/ Marker and before meeting a Stockli/ VIST set up would have been very happy to be on Volkl my whole life. I could also perhaps be confusing the benefits of the skis/ plates with my marked improvement in skiing ability as a result of 12 weeks skiing in one year (unheard of for me) and a focus towards becoming an instructor in addition to a demanding five week ski course.


The fact is that a TT plate on a fat powder ski gives one that extra leverage to direct one's thoughts onto the snow. I think that they compliment what is an excellent hand made ski and I find myself not quite enjoying the ride as much when I try skis that I used to be perfectly happy on.

If you can get your way to Keystone and are obviously not a rock hopper, I will even let you try a pair (but no friends on powder days so I have dibs on the DP Pros if there has been more than 5" overnight - no seriously we could take turns between Rotors and DP Pro or Rotor/ Laser SC just to compare the two etc).

All comments always welcome.

jbotti

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 09:59:56 am »
Thanks Andrew. It sems like with the Vist bindings you can potentially get the best of both worlds which would be the adjustability of the Tyrolia Railflex system and the high end performance of a good race binding with carve plate.

I never thought about installing plates and then dropping the same binding in on different skis. How quick and easy is this to do with the Vist TT system?

I will have to buy a set up and try it. Thanks for your thoughts. JB.

AndrewR

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 07:17:42 am »
I am not sure whether your post needed a reply. The system is so simple that it is a matter of seconds to transfer the binding between skis and seconds (even mid slope) to change the ride position. I tend to experiement most with my Rotors as they defintiely handle harder snow and bumps better in the more centred position (one position forward) than the normal 'ride' position which is perfect for longer turns in powder and crud.

Like I said if you get yourself to Keystone/ Vail/ Beaver Creek you can have a look and a ski and see what you think - although you may then develop a very expensive Stockli addiction.

scb

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 06:52:37 am »
i've never seen VIST plates or bindings offered in the US.  i wouldn't even know where to look for them

midwif

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2007, 05:44:27 am »
Vist conversations are too important to languish beneath spam.
"Play it Sam"

midwif

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2007, 10:51:39 am »
Jim is being a very,very,  bad boy. :o ;D
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jim-ratliff

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2007, 10:57:52 am »

AAAAAAHHHHHH.  :o You found it.  Good.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2007, 11:51:56 am »

bump
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2007, 03:55:59 pm »

bump
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

midwif

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2007, 09:15:50 pm »
keeping the ski maniacs on top.
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Gary

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 01:57:09 pm »
Nice job there lady....

you be on the ball!


Bump


Gary

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2008, 05:22:36 pm »
I will bump errr mogul with some actual information. I have been using Vist systems for the past season on various capacities, I had some Blizzard Mag SL's with Speedlock Pros set up with some Marker 14's, two sets of these. Yhis is actually a very rare combination, only about 2 dozen sets of these were produced. I also had some Hart Phoenix's set up with Speelock plates and Vist 614 bindings. I will say there is no better shard snow set up than using a Vist plate along with a Vist binding it is a very solid interface that is very flexible.

Gary was talking about binding positioning on skis, Vist is a great option for that type of concern. Ron is talking about some Hart Pulse's, them with some Speedlock Pro Ultra Lites and Free 614's will be one sick set up.

Liam

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2009, 11:34:39 am »
The shop I work at  (in western, MA)Part time picked up Hart skis for this season and we've set up a few Pulses and a Phoenix with the Vist speed lock plate and bindings.  I've never skied them-but, they're pretty cool operating-incredibly easy to move around and swap out other bindings.  I've heard there is an AT option that pops into this plate as well, which could make a pretty versatile set up.

I thinking about setting up my new, son to arrive Nomad SFT 181's with a vist system-but I need to see if they'll pro-form an active Patroller (which I am) or not.  Otherwise, it's Marker look-Rossi for me...

which reminds me I need to make another thread about bindings and Nomads...

namax

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2009, 06:55:21 am »
Liam -

where do you work - I'm originally from Western MA.

Liam

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 12:04:20 pm »
Hey Namax,

I work PT at a newer ski shop (actually it's an older bike shop that starting selling skis  a year ago)

called Bicycles-skis-unlimited in greenfield.  and FWIW, sinvce you're a western, ma native I patrol (pro during the week and volunteer on the weekend) at Berkshire East (a great little mountain).

I'm a transplant to western, MA (about 10 years ago)-but I like it a lot.

namax

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Re: VIST bindings and plates
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2009, 06:55:13 am »
Oh - many memories from long ago at Berkshire East - I raced there in high school.  I'm originally from further west in the berkshires, but my wife grew up 10 minutes away from Berkshire East in Buckland.