Author Topic: Standing tall  (Read 1046 times)

Gary

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Standing tall
« on: November 05, 2010, 09:20:36 am »
There's something interesting in the wind....
Over the past 3 skis seasons I've been playing with my stance in my boots and discoverd FOR ME, they had me to far forward with too much pressure against the tongue of the boot. For a 1min 30sec run down the mountain carving turns this was fine. But as I took on more varied terrain and conditions and with modifications, I found a more center balanced, neutral and upright stance in the boot was very rewarding. This position allowed me to work the ski tip to tail with quiet, even pressure and feel way more in balance and really could utilize the entire length of the ski.
As I started to read the ski mags on the stands today, I noticed that more boot manufacturers are not only stating their boot has an upright stance, they are actually posting their adjustability like 11-18 degrees....some like Dodge and Dalbelo give you the ability to easily change it. My Raptors at purchase were 17 degrees as posted on the Head web site...today after modifications, they are at 11....I'm loving the control I have over the skis. What I have found that is extremely important that the rider be able to STILL pressure the shovel so it is critical that the flex of the boot by proper so that the the skier can still apply pressure forward for turn initiation off the shovel when required. A most definite reward is when you are centered and stacked evenly balanced fore and aft in your boots when skiing powder, crud, bumps, and trees where skiing more off the center of the ski with softer forward pressure come into play.
It would seem there's is a new movement to offer more upright boots and the option for the driver to be able to modify their boot.....now THIS is progress!

Gary
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 09:27:55 am by Gary »

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chris719

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 07:32:00 pm »
Hi Gary,

How exactly did you modify the boots to 11 deg? I have a pair and I think they have much forward lean for me. Did you also experiment with ramp angle?

Thanks,
Chris

Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 08:53:45 am »
Hey Chris...it was probably the biggest modification I've ever done to a pair of boots...actually my boot fitter here did the work. What he did was add an 8mm plastic lift screwed and glued under the toe piece and a 3mm plastic plate under the heel for an over all lift or upright of 5mm. Then he ground the toe and heel lugs so they would fit in the bindings. He had me stand in my boots and put shims under the toe until I felt a position that felt centered and stacked. Took a while to accomplish this but this was major surgery.

The result was a fantastic improvement where? I could really start to feel more centered and stacked when in my skis...like my center mass was right over my arches. Then in Portillo this September, I played with one more element, RAMP ANGLE.....I had the heel of the zeppa board (boot board) ground down 2mm and I immediately felt my ankles open up and I was able to feel tall, no pressure on the quads and the most centered between the tongue and rear cuff of the boot. My best guess estimate is that I'm in that 11 degree range.

Depending on your height and physical structure, maybe starting with the ramp angle would get you in a better stance. That's the least expensive way to start the process. Be very precise if you decided to go this way. Also, a quick experiment while in your boots,  place one or two magazines under the toe of each boot while your in a good ski stance and just see how it feels.

I believe the risk has been worth the results. IMO, being stacked and centered truly improves my ability in the bumps, crud and powder. I can really FEEL and more easily USE the entire length of the ski.

Hope this helps you Chris,
Gary
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 09:05:55 am by Gary »

jim-ratliff

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 10:02:53 am »
Hey Gary:

And the reason for doing 8 degrees front and 3 degrees rear rather than just putting a 5 degree shim under the front?? A bit strange?? ?>:D

I have to admit I admire your willingness to experiment rather than just looking for a different boot layout.  well done.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 01:03:16 pm »
Hey Jim...I believe why the boot fitter did that was because it had to do with the lug on the toe and heel and the angle that it connects to the binding. There were some saftey and release issues he was concerned with making that 5mm change.

Another boot...no no no...those boots had the best internal shell fit to my foot and well...I had already purchased them. Hmmm, my new motto, find a boot that is perfectly shaped to the foot and then "fix it"!

In addition to those changes, the 6th toe was slightly ground out, the toe box was slightly widened, I softened the flex with some grinding of the inner cuff and put on Booster Strap.

"Is it soup yet"?......for sure, perfecto!? ;D G
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 01:05:40 pm by Gary »

chris719

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 10:34:02 pm »
Thanks for the info. I'm going to see a good fitter near me soon who specializes in alignment so hopefully we'll go through a similar process. I do feel more stacked with toe lift even just standing around. My quads would burn in the lift line eventually, the only relief was going fast on moderate grades.

Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 07:45:03 am »
Sounds great Chris...let us now how the boot fitter sets you up!

Best, Gary

Ron

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 01:23:11 pm »
why am I having a flashback to "Spinal tap here"   ;D

no these boots have 11mm on the toe...  11mm is much betta'  it's one betta' than 10mm..... 

OK, I  do have to ask...

8mm in the toe-3mm in the heel= 5mm differential

5mm in the toe - 0 in the heel =5mm differential

5mm is not a big deal overall, so there must be something with the lug in the toe? was it hollow and he had to compensate? Or did he just need a few more chargeable hours for bench time?  ;D


Hey Gary:

And the reason for doing 8 degrees front and 3 degrees rear rather than just putting a 5 degree shim under the front?? A bit strange?? ?>:D

I have to admit I admire your willingness to experiment rather than just looking for a different boot layout.? well done.


Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 01:07:05 pm »
Not sure for the reason of raising the toe 8mm and the heel 3mm but it might have been how much work he would have had to do to the toe lug. Possibly, the heel lug angle and flat surface exposure would have had to change anyways. He told me because of significance in the overall change, he took the safest route.

That's the best I got...but I do have the fitters phone number for maybe a better explanation. I do know....IT WORKS SWEET!

Ron

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 02:14:35 pm »
another thought is overall height of lug in binding. that could be the reason.

Philpug

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 08:18:14 am »
He wanted to maximize the boots leverage potential while staying within FIS rules. It's all about the 43mm rule, baby.

Ron

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2010, 08:41:09 am »
mebe, its just the ol' heel lift trick- get a few more mm of height.  i think it was in one of HH's earlier videos, I suggest trying vertical striped pants and jacket, slimming while giving the appearance of a little more height...... all the rage in Paris this season  ;D

Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 08:44:46 am »
 ???...not sure he had that in mind but Phil is our expert resident boot fitter....and

SO:

I am always doing that which I cannot in order that I may
 ? ? learn how to do it.
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Pablo Picasso
 ;D hmmm....I do like the vertical stripe idea though!!!!

chris719

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2010, 09:45:48 pm »
I saw Billy Kaplan in PA, who does awesome work, btw.

I'm a severe overpronator with extremely flat feet and slightly knock-kneed so a footbed and canting were the first things to be done, that and some grinding.

He liked my stance in the Raptors (which I just got and haven't skied in), so the forward lean and ramp is left as is for now until I can get on the snow. We also talked about cutting the upper cuff to make more room for the calf but not sure if I'll have to go down that route.

I also have borderline hypermobile ankles so it might be that the forward lean wasn't my problem before, but ramp angle inside the boot was.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 09:49:46 pm by chris719 »

Gary

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 03:15:55 pm »
Hey Chris...you're on your way to getting a great understanding of how boots and their custom modifications will affect your skiing. Sounds like you got the alignment issues looked after and that's awesome.

Flex and forward lean are so individual and anatomy oriented. I know when I stand tall and relax my knees, my optimal stance is where I feel centered over my arches so that fore and aft pressure in the boot feels about equal.

Let us know when you hit the snow and how things go.

Best, G

chris719

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Re: Standing tall
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2011, 10:48:06 am »
Hi Gary,

Still playing with the setup but added some toe lift and cut the back cuff to make more room for the calf, which has helped.

To reduce ramp, did you grind the top or bottom of the heel of the boot board? Looks a lot easier to grind the bottom but I know you don't have a lot of material to work with that way because eventually the board won't sit correctly in the toe part of the shell.

Thanks,
Chris