Author Topic: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot  (Read 1669 times)

jim-ratliff

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2010, 12:42:21 pm »

So John, is there a pair in your future (this year?)?
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2010, 01:18:03 pm »
Based upon what he is saying it sure sounds like there should be. Having said that, dialing in boots with fit and alignment/canting is work. I don't know if I have the energy to make that happen this year. The money I am fine with spending. I will galdly spend $1500 for a vastly superior product if I believe that to be the case. I'll know for suer when I demo these next weekend. The early commentary is pushing me hard in that direction.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2010, 03:10:41 pm »
Based upon what he is saying it sure sounds like there should be. Having said that, dialing in boots with fit and alignment/canting is work. I don't know if I have the energy to make that happen this year. The money I am fine with spending. I will galdly spend $1500 for a vastly superior product if I believe that to be the case. I'll know for suer when I demo these next weekend. The early commentary is pushing me hard in that direction.

But the good news is that they already understand a lot about your alignment and are now getting experience with the Dodges in the real world.? And b'sides, you don't have to get them completely dialed in any faster than you want or have energy.? Getting them 97% there might not be that challenging.

Would you Are you going to have them done by Harald or Jim?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 06:52:57 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2010, 03:49:48 pm »
Good question. Because my alignment is such a big issue (broken ankle that is set wrong, off by 13 degrees), I generally start with Harald. When I bought the Raptor 150's I already knew the last and stance from my 130's so it was real easy. I had Jim do all the fit work and Harald will put the alignment shims on next weekend. Because this is a brand new boot to my foot and because the alignment could be so much different and because Harald knows my skiing better than I know it, it makes more sense to work with him than Jim. As well, I will be there in 8 days. It is also hard to beat the on snow alignemt assessment that Harald does.. To truly dial in alignment the last final adjustmenst have to done on snow. If I need to do more work on fit I can drive up and see Jim.

See what you've done, you've got me owning the boot already!!

In my mind, I am going to try them and objectively observe the result. If this difference is startling, I WILL come home with a pair.

midwif

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2010, 06:24:09 pm »
All I can say is "SH*T!" ;)

(maybe) The next new, big innovation in skiing that I will lust for!

AND, like you JBotti, I have that low volume, narrow foot.

Gnashing of teeth.



Okay, not really. Not even CONSIDERING the price of these babies, but am interested in your feedback.
I think this is the beginning of a new evolution  in ski boots.
Who knows what will be available in 2-4 years from now?

Lighter, more responsive boots for those who really value those things. (admittedly not the majority).

 Very interesting conversation guys.
Thank you.
"Play it Sam"

jim-ratliff

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2010, 06:56:21 pm »
Aaaahhhh.? So I have an ultimate solution.? Suspend the emotional investment in getting the Raptor 150's dialed in and commence same with Dodge's.

One high-end boot for another, and you still have the Raptor 130's to fall back to??? ?>:D >:D

By the way, what topsheet are you going to get with your Ullr's Chariots??? ?;D
 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 11:02:05 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

ToddW

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2010, 07:38:43 pm »
More info from HSS.  The Dodge is relatively narrow through the calf area.  If, like me, you have large calves or they insert lower, these may not be the boot for you.

midwif

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2010, 11:35:30 pm »
More info from HSS.? The Dodge is relatively narrow through the calf area.? If, like me, you have large calves or they insert lower, these may not be the boot for you.

SH*T!!!

This is (almost) killing me.
STOP writing about how this boot is MADE for my foot!!

Oh, wait, you're talking about men's legs. Whew.

Seriously, I think that a few years down the road, these boots will be available and maybe, just maybe, a bit less expensive and with more time in development.
Carbon fiber boots will never be cheap though.
The early reports from the PMTS forum are very interesting. And Todd, sorry to hear they are not right for you. Just wait, they'll expand their repertoire of sizes.
There have to be some big, beefily calved guys on the racing circuits who will need these boots too.
"Play it Sam"

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2010, 03:38:54 pm »
Not to tease, but I did ski the Dodge boot and I own a pair. I am very tight for time and I will come back with a review later today. I iwll say quickly that this is a comlpicated fit and set up and this boot is not going to be for everyone because of this and other reasons. If you go for a performance fit it is by far the hardest and most painful boot I have ever put on.

Lynn, don't feel bad. It is very early with CF boots. Lots of kinks to work out. This is really only for crazy early adopters (I guess I qualify) and my view on the boots is very incomplete because I have so many canting and set up issues that we could not completely fix while I was out there. More later.

Gary

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2010, 01:19:03 pm »
Well...they could always make for great conversation piece on the coffee table...

JB...I'm guessing they really sparked a fire if you bought them....I do understand fit issues cause in my past it sometimes takes 1 or 2 seasons to work out any bugs, kinks or fine tuning. Sounds like you've got you hands full getting them dialed in.

Look forward to your comments.

G

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2010, 03:04:27 pm »
Here are some observations about the boots. First off I think almost everyone will be going down a size in these. I ski the Heads in the 27 size which is a 313mm boot sole length. Doing a shell fit in the dodge, my foot pretty much exactly fit lengthwise in the Dodge 26 which is a 305mm boot sole length. Because the CF is so thin (vs thick plastic on a traditional plug boot) a 305mm boot sole lngth has about the same amount of space inside as does the 313mm BSL with thick plastic. The 8mm difference is the width of the plastic both front and back. Being able to ski a smaller BSL is always considered an advantage and does come with better quickness, better leverage and therfore better performance. The downside in just about filling up the entire boot lengthwise is that there was not a lot of room left to get into the boot. Harald did show me the technique for getting into the boot, but the CF is real stiff and it is really hard to pull the bear claw apart to makes some extra space to get the foot in. Mine is not the most flexible foot and one with better flexibility (like Diana's or Harald's) is easier to get in. Definitely one of the harder boots to get into that I have ever tried.

I did not love the stock liner and I was surprised that my Nordica Foam liner fit in. I found this to be a major improvement and after sitting in them for 5-10 minutes or so, they were actually quite comfortable. I would say that the last in the boot is around 98mm which is about where I have no hot spots. I skied the boot for about two hours with no pain or hot spots and we had done no punching or grinding in the boot (or whatever you would do in place of this with CF). I am a natural B width and on one foot I have a bone protruding which makes that foot almost a C width, but both feet are low volume.

As for stiffness, it is actually pretty easy to regualte the flex of the boots with the buckles. You can get a real stiff feel by tightening the buckles and a much less stiff fell by leaving the buckles with much less tension. I did not ski the boot off piste, but my sense is that it will ski just fime there especially if you loosen buckle tension. When you do come up upon the front of the boot, there is very little give. It is solid and it stays that way in all temps. I would say that when pressing against the front of the boot it is no stiffer than my 130 boots on a cold day (very little give in either boot) amd much stiffer than my 130's on a warm day. Again I will say thet boot does not ski ultra stiff when the buckles have less tension.

I think ultimately I will have a foam liner done specifically for these boots. I think harald is heading in the same direction. With my current foam liners I had a little more room in and around the ankle and heel than I want and I think a foam liner foamed in these boots would take up that space.

We decided to go out with canting shims taped to the bottom and it seemed prudent to go wth less canting than what is on my current set up. Well without the canting dailed in I literally could hardly ski!! I could not get the tips to bite or the ski to bend and on every edge change it seemed like I was waiting a full second or longer for the edges to engage. Not fun. Actually quite scary on steep terrain!! I also use a lot of forward lean in my set up and that was also absent from the way we originally set up the Dodge Boots. We played with the set up on the hill but it was clear after a couple of hours that this was going to be a bigger project and that we needed sole plates to get it where it needed to be.

I did have a few a wow moments but I was fighting the set up so much that I never was able to open things up.

I will say that for the right skier, one who does not need much flex in a boot, my guess is that these boots will ski off piste just fine, and may also be an improvement over plastic boots because of the big weight difference. again they never felt crazy stiff or unforgiving in any way.

Looking forwrard to skiing them when we dial in the set up. I will post my thoughts when we get there.

Gary

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2010, 09:14:52 am »
Thanks for the candid report JB....really very informative.

Like Rocker to skis...it will be interesting to see how this new technology works it's way into main stream ski boots!

Now....what to do with your other boots?

It would appear from the sounds of things, you couldn't make a performance comparision with your current boots because the DC's were not dialed in for you....

Look forward to hear that comparison once the "magic" is there!

Best, G

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2010, 10:05:15 am »
Yeah, right now I would not trade my Raptor 130's for anything. They are dialed in and awesome. The hope is that the Dodge's get there and beyond!! Time will tell. JB.

Ron

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2010, 11:10:16 am »
so do how do you rate them?  not sure if you were blown away by them but they sound revolutionary.  did hh fit or are you taking to schaftner?

jbotti

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Re: Dodge Carbon Fiber uber boot
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2010, 04:38:42 pm »
Harald fit me and he is doing all the alignment work. I should have them in a week or so. Can't really rate them unti the set up gets dialed in.