Author Topic: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot  (Read 5835 times)

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2010, 03:14:58 pm »
I am going to be stubborn on these. I am demoing in November. I will hope that if I love them, Dave will find me a pair or make me a new one!! I also think that there will be a much smaller market for the chariots than for some of the other Ski Logik skis. We are a small fraternity that actually likes sidecut. Most skiers actually hate it especially in powder skis.

Agreed.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

LivingProof

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2010, 12:34:36 pm »
We are a small fraternity that actually likes sidecut.?

JB,

As you have stated previously, the appeal of the deep waisted ski is in decline. I'm wondering what the causes are? I can understand the appeal in bigger mountain western skiing, but, for the east, I think somewhere around 78 mm waist the ability to get on edge, perform at speed and remain comfortable all day long is optimized as a "daily driver". Maybe it's as simple as the newer skis just turn easier no matter what the waist. It amazes me on Epic when an eastern skier asks for recommendations, many recommend something around 88 and above. The Philpug's can ski a 88 in the east, but, how many ski with his ability and hard charging style?

One aspect of skiing that interests me is looking at those skiing down while I'm riding the chair. Honestly, I see very little skiing that excites me. I want to watch 1 in 20. So much tail pushing, standing straight up, hands at sides and making the same boring skids. Maybe it's just that if you are going to ski poorly, any ski will assist you in getting there. Perhaps the day of technique is over, replaced by instant gratification of just going fast. Somehow the concept of learning to ski first and then developing an individual style has been lost.
 
Certainly, ski manufactures benefit as skiers are enticed to get something new, and the sport needs money pumped into it. Hype is a great stimulant. I've benefited from a second ski to do things that my daily driver does not deliver, and, no knock intended on those seeking to extend the range of equipment they enjoy.

Maybe I'm just locking in on my personal beliefs and should not be so harsh on others enjoyment. Although we may like others to think and do as we do, it's just not the way of the world. What I believe is that we all need to match our individual needs to the ski we select, and, not to be in lock-step with a trend.

Rant over!

PS - Jim, congrats on starting a thread that has such a long life!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 01:17:55 pm by LivingProof »

jbotti

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2010, 12:54:06 pm »
If I lived on the east coast and skied in the east (vermont) I would only be on slalom carvers pretty much all the time except when there was a big dump. My guess is that with fresh snow I would be on the IM 78 (or a Kastle MX78) or maybe an 88 waisted ski. Not sure (don't know East Coast snow) you ever get the 2 feet dumps. The other question is how fast does it get skied out and my sense is that the answer to that is very fast. So if you will be skiing on crowded slopes with minimal amounts of fresh snow, with ice underneath, I have trouble seeing why anyone would want or need a real fat ski with a wide TR. Rocker would be the last thing I would ever consider in these conditions.

I do think it has a lot to do with the issues that many of us have talked about with ski intsruction in general. People are not getting what they need with instruction so they are more than eager to listen to the ski companies that have innovations that they say will make things easier. One thing is for sure, rocker is not making intermediates better skiers, but it is enabling some to ski terrain in pow that they never could have before. Unfortunately it actually makes their basic technique worse, but most don't care!! In that respect it really is a bit of a gamechanger.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 03:29:07 pm by jbotti »

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2010, 03:08:27 pm »

I wonder if its the snowboard influence.  People take a 30 minutes lesson and they are able to "board".  How many boarders do we watch that really use the edges. There are some that really can, but the vast majority (especially at local hills) are just sliding and skidding their way down the hill, and enjoying.  I think wide skis emulate some of that, and the width makes them easier to slide around without those nasty edges getting in the way.  Similarly, snowboards really float in powder -- so do the wide boards.

The other option is that it is slick marketing by the ski companies creating a market that really isn't there.

Bottom line question??  Are more of the "average" skiers excited about and having a good time skiing because of wide boards, even if it is only because they provide the illusion of big mountain skiing??  I think the answer is yes, and if they are enjoying it then its hard to fault them for the way they've found to enjoy outdoor physical activity.

My east coast ski is my Head SuperShape Magnums.  72 under the waist with pretty decent versatility.
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Ron

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LivingProof

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #80 on: September 22, 2010, 06:12:00 am »
http://shop.nextadventure.net/ski-logik-ullrs-chariot.html

just in case...

LOL, too funny!

Ron,
From the Real Skiers archives and living proof that you got your skiing progression done right and on a Supershape!

PS - If I had a house at the 'boat, I'd be a much fatter guy! ;D

SKI: SuperShape w/FF12's 170's 121-66-107
Skier, level 8/9
AGE:42
Weight: 175
height 6

Conditions: Icy, hardpack to Fresh 8" of powder

Overview:The SS is truly an incredible ski!? This is simply the best ski I have ever skied on. Incredibly versitile, an absolute blast to ski on.? I did not ski on anything the SS couldn't handle. It's my 80% ski. (the IM82 is the 20%). Fast, nimble and rock solid. I would have to compare this most like a RX8.? It is not for intermediates!? It likes to be driven.? Skidders need not apply, you will not be happy! bring your technique and love of speed. Not a Sunday driver.

Icy hardpack and firm groomed day: Ski just thrives on ice and boilerplate, very stable and transitioning from ice to hardpack was seemless. This ski is just rock solid. Obviously, with the sidecut on this ski, carving is a dream, its so easy to rock this baby over and lay some of the tightest, deepest trenches! It is also happy to make large and medium turns, short turns are rapid fire, the ski is so nimble and perfectly balanced (for me) the reaction to minor movements is almost exaggerated. Just too much fun. You will want to drive this ski.

8" of fresh powder and piled up powder (blue level mogols)- I was thinking that I was crazy with these skis in the fresh powder. As I went down my first run, I was waiting for the sides to catch, nope didn't happen!? Don't be fooled by the 66mm waiste, the ski has so much float with the 122 up front and the 107 in back, it blasted through everything with ease. The only time it got caught up a bit was skiing GS turns across the fall line in about 1.5 foot piles of powder.? Even then it was manageable.? I actually demoed the 82's that day and that's where they sold me.

Ski the SS aggressively and actively, technique is a must, don't learn to carve on these, they aren't going to be a good choice, if you are a carve juncky like I am, you must ski them. Beg borrow or steal (just not mine) but? get on a pair.

Quote from: gandalf/ullr

Original of this review was posted on April 17, 2006

Quote
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 11:56:08 am by jim-ratliff »

jbotti

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2010, 08:14:52 am »
That was pre historic Ron. Truly a different era. Someone pulled up an old thread on Epic where Ron was talking about never wanting or needing anything wider than his IM 82's. My guess is that on the east coast you really don't.

Nice to see that at one point Ron thought the SS's were great skis!!

In my book it is a ski that sits alone in that spot (recreational slalom carver) and the new one with KERS (as I have said ad nauseum) is a huge step up.

Ron, my only point to you is that you can still ski the Bent Chetlers when there is great fresh snow, but skiing SS's on groomers when it hasn't snowed in 2 weeks is still a lot of fun and really good for your skiing. Rocking high edge angle slalom turns is still almost as much fun as skiing fresh powder (at least for me). I did say almost!!

Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2010, 11:42:00 am »
omg!  thats too funny...  my havent i progressed!   I'm such a gaper. 

btw- take a look at the date on my review my bet is that pre-dates the updated review peter/hh one posted......

yes, as always, you can ski a SS but I choose not to. Its not what I enjoy anymore. The most fun I have had on groomers has easily been the MX78. it almost made me want to ski a groomer for more than a day....  the 88 comes damn near close. (I may sell the 78's if only to afford the 100-105)

lineup for this season are the Benny's, a to-be-determined 100-105 ski (most likley setup for touring) and the 88's.

LivingProof

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2010, 01:22:20 pm »

My east coast ski is my Head SuperShape Magnums.? 72 under the waist with pretty decent versatility.

Jim,
You are in some good company. Over the past 3 years, Ron, Gary, Phil and I have been in Jackson Hole each January. One local person we ski with is Bob Peters who posts on Epic and is a super ambassador for the area. He also is one helluva skier and his daily driver is the Head Magnum. He calls it the perfect JH ski when there are no freshies. He's a rep for Head and has access to their full line so he can select from several skis according to conditions, and, hell no, he does not use them on pow days. JH goes for some long periods without new snow, and as it faces east the snow can get very eastern like.

It's funny that we developed 3 friends there and each skis an entirely different ski. Our friend Stephen (Skiing-in-Jackson) skis the widest skis he can find. David ( Tetonpowderjunkie ) skis 90 plus Nordica's. Go figure. As you have commented many times, to each his (or her) own.

Ron, Phil did an epic post quoting many things I said about fat skies prior to trying and buying the 88's and doing a full 180 degree turn. It is a real trip being convicted by your own words.  Keep giving us your best and current thinking.

Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2010, 01:44:55 pm »
LP, I dont think I did a 180 on my words at all. In fact, I look at that and see how I have progressed to find skiing an ski's that I truly like. To evolve is good, to be stuck in the same ol' rut shows you have a closed mind and you are not open to find new things that y may enjoy more. I have no issues whatsoever about that review.  It's a very accurate and true review. At that time, it was what I was into.  I will be posting up new reivews in just a few months on new skis (In fact i already poste up reviews on the kaslte 88 this August) I will be on. The Bent Chetlers and others. I love trying different ski's, skiing new terrain, using different techniques but most of all, I love joy I realize through skiing hangng with others like-minded.

I can find other reviews if you like?  BTW- I loved that im82, for it's time it was a big pow board and it was the 1st ski I ever went off-piste with.  Now I am on a 142-123-135 20/20 rockered, low cambered toy!  Whoo-hooo! 

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2010, 02:18:20 pm »
One aspect of skiing that interests me is looking at those skiing down while I'm riding the chair. Honestly, I see very little skiing that excites me. I want to watch 1 in 20. So much tail pushing, standing straight up, hands at sides and making the same boring skids. Maybe it's just that if you are going to ski poorly, any ski will assist you in getting there. Perhaps the day of technique is over, replaced by instant gratification of just going fast. Somehow the concept of learning to ski first and then developing an individual style has been lost.
 match our individual needs to the ski we select, and, not to be in lock-step with a trend.

1. They may be skidding and looking boring (and I was there at one time) but are they on the mountain and getting their money's worth.? First you have to be there and enjoying what you are doing before "getting better" at what you are doing ever becomes an issue.? I once had a day at Winter Park with a foot of icy crystals and snow (heavy) and my 30 year old son said "Well dad, at your age you may have to accept that you won't get any better."? That was my motivation to change, but I was already enjoying skiing (and finding the limitations of my skillset).  I have often thanked him for that 'insensitive' comment.

2. Some people accept (maybe even need) the concept and value of coaching, usually people that have been coached in other sports or are just a bit competitive.? Those of us that want to get better through coaching are actually the ones in the minority.? ;D
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 02:22:45 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #86 on: September 22, 2010, 02:59:16 pm »
considering the average skier in on the snow less than 10 days (pretty sure it's 7.5 days) its a huge expense to take 3-4 family memebers to the slopes for the days, let alone take lessons (which most view as boring and a waste of their day) this is another reason for the popularity of snowboarding. Much lower cost, faster learning curve, to most its a social event.

LivingProof

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2010, 07:36:42 am »
LP, I dont think I did a 180 on my words at all. 

Ron,
Perhaps I phrased it in an awkward manner, but, my intent was to show how much I flipped on the issue of wider skis.

Just too funny reading your SS review, made me want to go out and buy one! Hey wait a second, they are all-ready my daily driver. ;D

Diversity is a good thing. Like I said, keep giving your best and current thinking.

Jim/Ron

Cost/Value of ski instruction needs a whole other thread. I, for one, do not miss the shock associated with opening my wallet to take my 4 person family for a day's skiing.




Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2010, 12:29:33 pm »
Mike, you haven't flipped either, again, this is a ski that through technology and your progression of skills has made the width of the ski a non-sequetor, besides, the width of a ski is only one of many other factors that have a huge effect on it's performance/handling...

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #89 on: September 24, 2010, 07:38:24 am »
My anticipation and pre-season ski excitement grows.? I'll post some pictures once I receive them
Perry: Note the quote about "they are very busy".? I think Dr. Perry needs to pull the trigger on some Healers.
JBotti: Clearly, I will be on my skis before you ---? :( :( too bad there won't be any snow within 1000 miles when I click into them.? ;D? Glad you are demoing - I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  Will be interesting to see if the overall ski performance and short turn radius is enough to outwiegh the twintip construction.  And the Howitzer doesn't have the 15m turn radius, but is probably the better soft snow ski and that's the area where you are looking to supplement your quiver.  Or maybe the UC will so overwhelm you with it's abilities that you decide to buy and worry about where it fits in your quiver later??

Quote from: Mariella @ SkiLogik
Hi Jim,
 
I have submitted the design and picked the veneer for you today.? They will start on your pair of skis tomorrow.? It will take a few days for the skis to be completed and ready to be shipped because we are really busy.? I will send you the tracking number once they are on their way.
I would say you will receive them within 2 weeks or so.? :-)
 
Have fun...
 
Mariella
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 07:43:13 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."