Author Topic: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot  (Read 8402 times)

Perry

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #285 on: December 14, 2010, 01:58:42 pm »
My SS magnum is 177 and that is perfect for that ski for me.  The ski logik jumps up to 186 or 188 I think.  I just haven't skied one that length but that is because I am conservative, and only started skiing several years ago and I make my skis last 3-5 years.  I will test something in that length this year and that will help me figure out if that "feels right".  I agree, the big difference would be additional float (a tip at 150cm) but I wonder if that would cause bump performance to diminish. The jump in float from my SS Mag would be pretty significant staying at 178 :o

jbotti

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #286 on: December 14, 2010, 02:43:38 pm »
Perry, when choosing length a lot depends on how you ski and how you will ski a certain ski. My experience with skis that I will most use offpiste and in fresh snow is that when I go too short, I have added maneuverability but the give up is a speed limit. In skiing steeps, in some biiger bowls etc, I really like to have a longer ski because I feel so much more comfortable going faster (that's also why I like a bit stiffer ski). But that is me. The real question is about you. If you never open up a ski (at higher speeds off psite) and if you will be skiing it a lot in trees and in tighter places, you will never notice the potential speed limit.

The rule of thumb is always about height and weight and of the two weight is more important. But there are guys that are 5 9" 160 lbs that rip so hard that they need stiff long skis. As well an intermediate skier that is 6 3" 230 lbs may be much better served with a shorter and softer ski.

As has been said so many times about choosing a ski, the same holds for choosing a length. Nothing is ever perfect, there are give ups in both directions. I always ask first, what will I use the ski for, how will I ski it, under what conditions, in what terrain and then I try to assess what the right length is for that ski based upon answering those questions about me. Unlike the common response on Epic where someone will say that ski is too short for you etc based upon weight and hieght, there really is no wrong answer. The two lengths will ski and feel different. The real question is how will you use them and in what conditions and terrain.

I have never skied with you, and maybe Jim has. But you can certainly answer the questions and then choosing the length should be much easier.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #287 on: December 14, 2010, 03:16:23 pm »
Perry:? ((EDITED at 5:29 EST))

I thought your SuperShapes were longer.? In that case I think the 178 UC would be fine, but the extra float would be ten more mm of that 101mm waist more so than the extra tip or tail.? FWIW, I'm 5'11" and 188 lbs.

And I agree with what John says, but they did feel very stable at speed on the groomed.? I'm not that fast on powder, so in three years I may want a longer ski.? At no time did I worry that I could cause the tips to dive by leaning on the front of the boot too much or anything, and I attributed that to the 145mm tip, which is a tip commeasurate with a 115-120mm waisted powder ski.?In fact, the amazing reality was that it took about 10 seconds and all of my prior frustrations with balance and powder skiing were gone, the skis just made it that easy.

Actually, I never "open it up" enough anywhere that I think falling would be major trauma or more than a 20 foot slide.

By the way, I really like the setup of the Power Rails.? One lever releases the toe, another lever releases the heel, no external connector between the two, and no need to ever take the bindings off the rail (except to move them to another pair of skis).? Move toe and heel forward or backward in equal amounts up to the limits of the binding, so a total of a lot more than 1.5cm each way.

John:? As you can tell, I don't know if the UC's were the right ski for what you wanted, but I am really happy.? The inside of my ankles noted the extra pressure by the end of the day but just as an awareness and not a pain.? They do need a little bit of speed to really carve (and a skier with good technique), but that was the only part of skiing where they gave the feeling of a stiff ski.? Initially and at slower speeds I was using more pressure against the boot tongue. In the softer snow, it was never a consideration (because more of the ski edge is already in the snow wheen tipped)?

Perry:? I was wrong, my SuperShapes are 170's and I think you should go with the longer UC just as I think you should be on a mid 180's Watea 84 or similar ski..?

Sorry for the mess-up.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 03:50:22 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Perry

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #288 on: December 14, 2010, 03:54:17 pm »
John, I agree 100% which is what make choosing difficult.  The best of all rules is demo before you buy.  With the UC, that seems to be a luxury.  I am going to contact them and see if I can hook up a pair to demo when in Steamboat.  I also want to try the S3, the Blizzard ONE and perhaps the Sultan and the Watea 98.  Wonderful to have so many choices.

Jim,
I agree with you as well, until I ski a 188, I have to admit that the concept seems pretty different.  I will definitely try before I buy.


jbotti

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #289 on: December 14, 2010, 06:27:34 pm »
I will also say that getting a sense of the Blizzard Fischer and Dynastar skis via reviews is much easier. Indie skis are different. Take it from someone that has bought many pairs and sold a few pairs as well. It seems that the holy grail on TGR for pow and big mountain skis is lightness. Hence all the indie co's are using fiberglass, CF and other light but stable materials. This may produce a very light ski, but they feel very different than skis that the big co's make especially the ones with metal in them. I can say that many of the skis I have bought were too light and lacked the beef and meat that I want in a big mountain ski.

My only point is that the Chariot is a different ski than the others you mention. It will ski and feel differently that many other skis. I would go out of your way to demo it. You may love the TR, it's edge hold and carving ability, but youy may hate the way it skis chop and crud at speed (just as an example). The other skis on your list you can almost buy from reviews, because they are known commodities and they use materials that you have skied before. Just my $.02.

jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #290 on: December 15, 2010, 08:11:48 am »
John:

I would disagree with putting the UC in the same category with the other "Indie" skis that are designed as "lightweights".? I didn't find it to feel much different than my Head iM78 or SuperShapes and more substantial feeling than the Watea 84.?

However, I agree that Perry should go out of his way to demo.? ?;D?
He skied my Watea's at Aspen last year and loved those, wait until he gets on a pair of UC Healers.
But 101 is a wide waist, and that's the real reason he should demo even more so than the length.

Perry: Part of John's analysis is also where you ski.? In my case that involves a lot of who I ski with, because Lynn is better than me in crud and powder and trees and we are always headed there, and she is floating her 120 lbs on 84mm waisted skis already.? If I didn't expect to spend 1/2 of my time off piste then I would have seriously considered a 90 mm waist (or probably just stayed with the 84's).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 03:58:08 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Gary

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #291 on: December 15, 2010, 01:12:25 pm »
Guys, I think it's critical to focus on where and what kind of terrain you are looking to ski that 100 underfoot ski.
Me for example wanted a versatile powder ski that could take me from front side to back side with good float, carveable, forgiving, and compliant.
Not having skied the Chariot it's dimensions FOR ME might make it like a 50/50 ski...50 front side 50 back...It really was a ski I was considering for my quiver. But I did my math and tried to determine based on the characteristics in design and reviews....would this fit my needs for my 2ND ski.
After doing the math and looking at a bunch of skis in the 100 underfoot category adding in my love for my Kastle 78's, the S3 would be more like 70% back side and 30% front side ski.
The S3 with rocker tip and tail, and the pin tail type design, is very playful in powder, very easy to release out of the tail and a blast to ski flat and drift with.
It's critical to understand by demo, reviews, and a general understanding of a ski's profile, construction and stat's, if that ski fit's into the slot you wish to fill with a new ski.
At least that's how I approached it.? Best, G




« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 01:17:57 pm by Gary »

LivingProof

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #292 on: January 08, 2011, 11:39:39 am »
What kind of person is Jim Ratliff ? He Sherpa?d two pair of skis to the Elk Mountain Demo Day so that I could demo the Chariots, adjusted them for my boots, and was willing to leave them in the snow while we all demo?s other skis. Ok, you may say he?s a little crazy, but, I say he?s a great guy.

My first runs on the Chariots were in 3-5 inches of new snow on groomer warm-up runs with moderate speeds. Sure, it?s hero snow or ego powder but they kept me smiling. I was thinking, damn, Peter Kelty knows his skis. The narrow turning radius lets them be turned with minimum input in a nice arc shape. The feeling is more of a plush ski, not stiff, not demanding, stable. I did some tight, linked, brushed turns trying to simulate tree skiing in powder and they performed well. My area of concern was when I put more input into the skis with tipping movements, they are slow to edge and did not grip and come to life.

For the next several runs, we all demo?d other skis and moved to black diamond trails to ski the varied conditions of ice, hardpack and loose powder that was Elk that day. I needed to get back on the Chariots and put them to a better test.

On the pre-lunch run, put them back on and did an aggressive black diamond run. They continued to fight responding to tipping movements and seemed to ski better just letting them turn more on their own. It was hard to find a rhythm in those conditions, but, where I could keep them in looser fresh snow, they did their thing. My sense was that with some more time and softer snow, I?d figure out how to ?not fight? with them. Its hard to stifle Harbian technique in me. Did not test them at high end speeds.

To be fair, they were not in soft snow conditions for which they were designed. Plus, I?m out of my pay-grade reviewing powder skis. Just musing, but, I?m thinking that for a skier who does not put a lot of input into skis, the Chariots may facilitate powder skiing with the low turn radius. Less edge angle can be a good thing. I wish that I had them in Jackson Hole last year when I demo?s a stiff Salomon powder ski and just did not enjoy the experience.

Someday I hope to again be with Jim on the right mountain and right snow. I?d have to be pretty persuasive to talk him out of using them, but, I like to see what they can do on an extended basis. They make Jim smile and ski pow and trees with Lynn. That?s what counts.


jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #293 on: January 09, 2011, 09:13:51 pm »
Mike:? Welllll, in the interest of FULL DISCLOSURE I have to say that Lynn actually schlepped the skis from the car to the lodge.?

And thanks for sharing the ski day, it was nice to meet you and share one of the better Elk skiing days I have ever lucked into.? (although it is always better than the local hills here in Virginia/southern Pa).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 08:56:26 am by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #294 on: January 26, 2011, 09:26:24 am »
Ski Logik update.

Lynn and I took our skis in to Frisco Ski and Golf (had been recommended to us) to get skis tuned and to satisfy my curiosity about the initial tune of my Ullr's Chariots.? The guy in Pennsylvania was wrong, the factory tune was as advertised at .7 and 1.5 and the bases were flat.  Frisco Ski and Golf recommended .7 and 2 for the edge, said that is what they had retuned all of the Ski Logik's at and further said that they believe .7 (or even .5) allows you to get to the edges on wide skis more easily without having any of the disadvantages that such a shallow base bevel might have on narrower skis.

However, as it turned out, Ski Logik had just dropped off their fleet for the upcoming SIA show in Denver, so we got to see a lot of the topsheets and yes, Perry, the tiger is awesome, but so is the Black Widow.? Lynn said she still thinks my Mariella's are right at the top.?However, the prettiest topsheet is the one Jeannie Thoren designed and carries in her store at Vail.  They are really positive on the skis, said they have been very well received (I think the actual quote was "they are very nice looking skis but they are excellent on the snow as well.")  Lynn is longing for an Edelweiss done in wood.

Ski Logik has a few new models for next year, including a front side ski and what might be a telemark specific ski (strange beveling of the top, sort of along the lines of the Scotty Bob skis)..? They didn't have dimensions visible, but will be interesting to hear more in the fall.

Anyway, still loving my skis.? Summit had a total of about 4 feet last week with 10" of that after we got here Friday night.? We spent two days in the back bowls and Blue Sky basin at Vail skiing mostly chopped up powder interspersed with sections of untracked. and I am still lovin my skis; I even let her talk me into taking the Poma up into Mongolia bowl just so we could say we had been from one end to the other.? Lynn and I have been spending the first hour each day working on fundamentals, and Lynn says she can even see my footwork getting better.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Perry

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #295 on: January 26, 2011, 10:48:32 am »
Sounds great.  I think doing the one hour a day makes sense.  I did some "slow form turning" with my wife at Snowshoe and it helped my skiing.


Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #296 on: January 26, 2011, 11:03:24 am »
even on powder Am's?

Gary

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #297 on: January 26, 2011, 12:15:29 pm »
GOD gives special dispensatoins from doing 1 hour drills on boot high snow and above!

Pointum, floatum bounceum, tipum...and? ;D

Jim...so glad you're still enjoying your new Chariots.....Intere sting combo on the edges...would have thought a .5 a little much for the base....but hey, I'm sure that's all figured into the overall ski design.

Happy you guys are getting some great snow to enoy....best, g
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 12:18:37 pm by Gary »

Ron

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #298 on: January 26, 2011, 12:42:56 pm »
but your boot high ranges from about 2" to 6".........

Gary

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Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #299 on: January 26, 2011, 01:13:33 pm »
ooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo >:(

and there...so no drills for me in 2" of freshies!

Maybe I should have just said...if it's fresh.......it's a no drill day and don't let Ron steal your lines...ya gotta fake him out.....look left but go right!    ;D