Author Topic: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot  (Read 6258 times)

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #210 on: October 12, 2010, 12:28:22 pm »
Why I'm sure those many evil rumors are just that...

But they sure are purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty looking boards.

THank you for the demo offer....I'll see how time away from home is accumulating.

Good luck with them...I'm guessing they are the perfect ski for you and well....maybe me?

Enjoy JR! g

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #211 on: October 16, 2010, 08:16:05 pm »
Just a little UC update.? Dropped my skis off today to have the Power Rail mounted.

Win did a bit of checking for me.? Bases were flat and true, base and side bevels consistently measured at .5 degrees base and 4 degrees side. The 4 degrees side bevel may have a lot to do with the performance on hard surfaces?

Not good or bad, but appears to be a consistent tune.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:13:00 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #212 on: October 16, 2010, 08:49:17 pm »
Wow, that is a very agressive tune. Even on the world cup on ice the try to avoid 4 degrees (mainly because it is slower). .5 degrees base is very agressive for a all mountain/pow ski (it is usually reserved for race skis and cheater race skis). It will be interesting so see how you like them. My guess is that you have rarely been on a .5 base. It is not very forgiving. If you flex to release and consistently fully release the old stance ski, .5 will work fine. If you get cautious and start holding onto the old downhill edge, .5 can get grabby and you may find that you are catching some edges. It is very easy to take it to .75 or 1 degree and it does not require a new base grind.

I do like a more agressive tune. One of the reasons Fischer skis feel so good when they are new is because the factory tune is 3 and 1. Head is notorious for varying tunes on different skis and often the don't ski super until I take them to 3 and 1.

Very interesting. When I see Dave I will ask him his reasoning for that tune and if it is standard on all his skis

Ron

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2992
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #213 on: October 18, 2010, 06:45:14 am »
very unusual for sure; my understanding is a tune of that degree (pun intended) will require a lot of maintenance as the 4degrees (especailly) is very susceptible to wear.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #214 on: October 18, 2010, 12:21:07 pm »
Yes, I was surprised by the 4 degrees. The little tri-fold owner manual says the standard tune is .7 and 1.5 degrees.  .5 or .7 isn't that much differenc, but 4 is.  By the way, he says that most of the Fischer skis that he sees are 4 degrees as well.  I don't have a guage to measure myself, but thought you might like to know.  Maybe Dave feels that is hi-carbon German steel allows the more agressive sidecut without wearing adversely?  ;D 
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jbotti

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 400 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 961
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #215 on: October 18, 2010, 04:05:23 pm »
I measure or have my skis measured regularly. None of my Fischers have ever come with a 4 degree side. There really is nothing wrong with it other than the fact that if you hit a pebble or rock it will take off more of the edge. It's also a lot slower as the agressive edge angle adds friction and slows down the skis (which may be a good thing for a non WC racer). It's the .5 that is so agressive and that you (and everyone) will reallly notice. Not sure why your skis have so agressive a tune if they say on the website that they are usually .75 and 1.5. I will ask Dave when I see him but you may want to call him and ask. Any shot your shop has measured incorrectly?

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #216 on: October 18, 2010, 11:09:43 pm »

Always a possibility! I will email Dave Mazz and see what he says. Might explain why Peter felt they had such good grip on icy conditions for a wide ski.   ;D

"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

LivingProof

  • Global Moderator
  • 400 Posts
  • *
  • Posts: 892
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #217 on: October 19, 2010, 08:49:00 am »
Jim,
Do you do your own maintenance on the edges? Does Peter check tune prior to skiing to assure that the manufacturer spec is in compliance? I'm perplexed that the tune is so different from the posted literature. The question is do you want to ski them and evaluate them on an "as-found" basis, or, bring them back to something more moderate like the typical 1/3 tune. For sure, I would get it clarified from the manufacturer. My gut feeling is that I would like a moderate tune in my initial skiing (that's a personal opinion folks).

One the really bad days I ever had on skis was following a tune by a shop with a great reputation. I could not believe how grabby and hooky my Supershapes became. Unsafe at any speed. I took them back the same day and they were fixed and just fine the next day. In that case, I did have a baseline comparison so it was clear as to what to do.



Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #218 on: October 19, 2010, 08:53:59 am »
If I may ask the stupid question..."how DO THEY measure the side and base edges....I mean, what tool does that"?

Ok...now that you guys will no doubt educate me.....my thoughts on .5 base and 4 side..

ARE YOU CRAZY ?>:D!!!

A ski that wide underfoot will probably be used more or less for crud, broken snow and pow....drifting or side slipping an outside edge with .5 and 4 degreees might be a bit touchy to say the least. Talk about trying to be soft edged and soft footed!!!

Could it be the tool for measuring your edges was out of whack....? Did you check with the manufacturers custormer service dept to see if that truly is what they install on their edges?
I mean...unless those babies are diamond tipped...wear is going to be quick and chippy!

Still....oohh....ra iling on .5 and 4 with my tuner following behind.....how sweet would that be! Ok real world now....I was told "you clazy" for 1 and 3 on my powder skis....but they are perfect for me....

So I may be all wet and discnoonected but ....I need more answers please!

Best, G ?;D

Ron

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2992
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #219 on: October 19, 2010, 09:01:16 am »
gotta agree with ya' Gar'. I will take my 1:2 for soft snow skiing anyday. The 1:3 on Kastle's however has changed my thinking in regards to the "3" but unless the snow is hard, there's no need in my book for anything that will potentially grab or create undesired resistance. That includes on exposed branches, logs or grass as well.

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #220 on: October 19, 2010, 09:18:39 am »
Yup...I too agree Ron...1 and 2 is probably suffiicent for the big boards...just requires me to take one more tool around with me so.....

but yeah....make sense.

Still....I await to be educated on my questions....I wish to evolve!? :P? ;D

Ron

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2992
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #221 on: October 19, 2010, 09:20:40 am »
for soft snow, no need to take tools! a diamond stone is all that is needed.

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #222 on: October 19, 2010, 11:04:53 am »
Jim,
Do you do your own maintenance on the edges? Does Peter check tune prior to skiing to assure that the manufacturer spec is in compliance? I'm perplexed that the tune is so different from the posted literature. The question is do you want to ski them and evaluate them on an "as-found" basis, or, bring them back to something more moderate like the typical 1/3 tune. For sure, I would get it clarified from the manufacturer. My gut feeling is that I would like a moderate tune in my initial skiing (that's a personal opinion folks).
Nope, I'm not a hands on maintenance guy.? I have a couple of trusted shops here and there.
Don't know if Peter checks tune or not. I imagine more likely to check if the skis act funny than to check all skis ahead of time. Peter raved about performance on frozen slush, maybe this is part of why (along with the torsional stability).
I plan to ski them as is and see what I think. My other two pair are turned 1 and 3 by my choice.?
I have sent SkiLogik a message asking about the edge bevels.

Gary, I can't believe that you don't have the little tool that tells you the angles. Whether Win's was off by a degree is hard to say?
http://www.svst.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=PBM&Category=f92d171f-9ca0-4508-bb92-a2cffe71a9ce
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 11:09:12 am by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

jim-ratliff

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2739
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #223 on: October 19, 2010, 11:19:00 am »
Maybe the maintenance of the sharper edges is mitigated by the material used in the edges?
Quote from: ski-logik
High Carbon German Steel edges with larger tabs and bonded on top across the full width so the edge will not blow out. For each ski we take one piece of steel and bend it by hand with no heat to fully wrap the tip and the tail. Handcrafting the edges this way avoids vulnerable joints and junctions.

Gary, since I see these as my all mountain skis and not a soft snow only ski. I was expecting that I would wind up getting them tuned to 1 and 3 just like all others for the past several years.? As per JB, I'm more concerned about a different release with the .5 base bevel than the 4 degree edge bevel. As far as maintenance of the edges, we are talking about a 86.5 degree net edge (assuming 4/0.5) vs. an 88 degree edge (for 1/3) vs. an 90 degree edge for the classic 1/1 tune.

I'll certainly post SkiLogik's response.  I may not be able to evolve like Gary, but maybe I can adapt.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 12:23:15 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Gary

  • 6+ Year Member
  • 1000 Posts
  • ******
  • Posts: 2590
Re: Ski Logik Ullr's Chariot
« Reply #224 on: October 19, 2010, 12:41:23 pm »
Ah...a new cool tool....thank you Jim for informing me.

I'd be curious to what Ski Logic says....

As for adapting...no sir I disagree having skied with you over th past few years...you are evolving without a doubt.

So....any snowfall their yet Jim? Are you new babies ready to go?

Ron..yes the diamond stone can do much but the guides  too for that "elperfecto accuracy"....special!

G