Author Topic: Head iM78  (Read 1155 times)

jbotti

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 10:43:05 am »
LP, this is my opinion and it is a reflection of my skiing level and preferences. Let me also say that I have not skied the MX78. MX88 or MX98. I did own the FX 84 and I iwll tell you that both the Head IM 78 and the Head Peak 88 are substantially better skis for me, and I will also say that it is not even close. The IM78 is such a great ski, that I have trouble believing that the MX 78 could be much better, but we will have to wait for a demo on this. I have a friend who owns the IM 78, is an excellent skier, and has skied the MX78. His comment was that the MX 78 had a very slight edge on hard snow vs the IM 78 and that the IM 78 was better off piste than the MX 78. He called it a toss up, and was absolutey sure that he would not pay the additional $'s for the MX78 because he saw no real uptick in overall performance and/or verstaility vs the IM 78.

Harald Harb has also skied the MX78 and he loved the ski. When I asked his opinion vs the IM 78 he said the same thiing that my other friend said.

Now that Head has changed the Peak series, the Kastle MX line has sudenly gotten more attractive, but vs the old Monster/Peak lineup, I am not so sure.

Of course I will tell you all what I think when I demo all the skis in January out in MT.

I know that Ron thinks the IM 78 is boring, but if you ski the IM 78 with big tip pressure on every turn, it is nothing short of exciting. It can and will pop you off the ground it has so much energy and rebound. Maybe the MX 78 has more. We will see.

Again, this is my opinion and it reflects my skiing and my preferences.

Ron

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2010, 11:36:01 am »
ski what you like for sure but why huge tip pressure when it;s the weakest part of the ski?

jbotti

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 12:24:30 pm »
When you pressure the tips on any ski and keep the weight way forwrad in a carved arc, the ski bends. This tightens the turn radius of the turn creating more G force for the skier to feel and contend with but it also is what creates rebound in a ski. When you bend a ski in a tightly carved arc you are putting maxium forces into the ski and when the forces are released, the ski pops/rebounds. On race skis it can be almost unmanagable for the non experienced racer to handle. On the IM 78 the rebound is very significant. The softer tips in some way is part of the beauty of the design. Tips that are too stiff can make it hard for mortals to bend the ski. The combo of a tip soft enough to allow ski bend combined with a stiffer middle and talil will create maximum rebound in the ski. So the IM 78 is very damp and hugs the snow when it isn't being bent. It pops huge when it is bent. For me this is the best combo to have in a ski, essentially huge stability and huge energy from the massive rebound.

jbotti

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 01:15:32 pm »
Here is a link to some video of me skiing some steep terrain (I won't argue with Ron about what the actual pitch is) on the new Head SS's. I wipeout pretty good at the end (yes we need more video of good wipeouts!!). If you look carefully using the pause button, you can see where my hips are at the apex of each turn, and they are in genarel even with or in front of my boots (on the stance leg). You can also see that I am getting pretty significant bend out of the ski. On the last turn (before the wipeout at the 13 second mark) I get back just a little and with that much ski bend the skis literally pop me off the ground into the air (see the 14 second mark using the pause and you will see that the skis have popped my tails way off the snow). This is what I am talking about with regard to bending a ski and tightening the TR which generates huge rebound. If I hadn't gotten back, I would have gotten controllable rebound which can be absorbed if one flexess at the rght time to absorb the rebound.?

As for the wipeout, it loosk worse than it was. Once I got launched I needed to stabilize. As I was doing thhis I saw the lift pole and I decided to dump my tail on the ground and do a controlled wipeout. I was actually quite a ways from the tower but it looks very close on the video. It actually was pretty fun!!

http://pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2879

Ron

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 03:10:26 pm »
yikes that tower woudn't have felt very good.....

Svend

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2010, 03:57:57 pm »
Having said this, I really don't understand what Head is doing. They are spending huge sums of money on landing the biggest name WC skiers and at the same time they are cuttinng down the race ski lineup that they carry in the states. And whereas Head has made great race oriented and carving skis as well as traditional all mountain skis that are all great (like the Monster/Peak line) they have never had even a remotely decent ski in the true big mountain free ride category. Actually the old IM 103 was a monster, but so stiff that only real pros could ski it. The rest of this lineup has pretty much blown. I don't think they have gotten much traction with the Joe, John, Jimi (I think a Carlos is coming) and that's because they were just repackages of existing skis (save the Jimi which was a rocker intro).

So next year they are de-emphasizing ther strength, race oriented carving skis and ther other strength, strong and powerful all mountain skis, and moving to all mountain skis with flappy tips. I think this is a sure fire way to hurt your business. The rocker buyer is not looking at all at Head and won't for a long time until they have some innnovative product that gets talked about for a few years. Their traditional buyer is going to get quite frustrated.


Hey John, are the Peak skis going softer for next year? All of them? When the 09/10 skis changed to the Peak name, it is my understanding that the only ski they made softer was the iM88, and that the iM82 and iM78 were unchanged except in name and graphics.  So what's the inside scoop for next year?

And their race-derived narrow carvers? Same thing? Now that would be a real shame, as they have had some outstanding skis in those lines -- Supershapes; the higher XRCs, now the TT80. Not to mention the women's performance line -- Power One (former Supershape Speed); Great One; Wild One -- all strong skis for good athletic female skiers (and no condescending girlie graphics).

That would be a crying shame if they dumbed down the performance of any of these.  I too am a big fan of their skis.  My first-ever skis were the iM70, which were a ton of fun to learn on.  For their performance skis, they seem to have been able to make a magical blend of all the right qualities that make a great ski, and yet make them accessible to a wide range of abilities from intermediate to high expert.  I sure hope they stay the course.  Personally I like the graphics of the Peak and Icon series, so at least in that respect they have moved in the right direction.

Looking forward to hearing the inside scoop..... 8)


jbotti

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2010, 04:11:20 pm »
Yes, they changed the Peak series for next year. They changed the tips and I have forgotten what they are calling it, but essentially they made the tips softer with maybe a little early rise. I have not skied them but I was told that  it does not totally detsroy the ski, but it definitely makes them less strong and harder to pressure the tips, and they flap some. Not great!!

The only thing that I have been told about the Race Oriented lineup is that they are de-emphasizing it in NA. Peter Keelty says thet they will not offer 2011 SS's in the US. Someone else has said that SS Speeds will not be offered here. For sure the whole line will have much lower distribution, and in general these skis will be much harder to find. The days of being able to steal SS's or other Head Race skis online will pretty much be over. Bad for us, maybe good for Head.

Of course all my info is subject. We won't know for sure until September.

Svend

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 04:29:56 pm »
Interesting....than ks John.

And I just found this thread on Epic which describes some of the changes for 10/11:? http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/91890/2011-head-skis-video-images/0? ?Perhaps we shouldn't despair the changes in the Peak 78, as there is the new Supershape Titan coming, which will be 78 in the waist.? Testers comments indicate there is a lot of performance in that ski, which will pull some of the old iM78 fans.? Softening the Peak 78 makes it more accessible to intermediate skiers, perhaps explaining Head's logic.?

As for the SS Speeds, maybe I should hold on to mine until the fall (I was going to advertise them now), when they might become a hot commodity in Epic's Classified section.? ?;D 8)? Top dollar, for sure!  ;D

Edit/Addition:  In any case, it's a shame about changing the Peak 78, as it is a great ski in its present form.  Why mess with a good thing? And the graphics are cool looking too (this year's ski, I mean -- not too keen on next year's, although the 08/09 iM78 version in the pale red and grey looked decent.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 06:47:37 pm by Svend »

jbotti

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 09:28:10 pm »
I spoke with Harald Harb about the SS Titan and he said it is one of the worst skis he has ever been on!! I believe he said it was way too stiff. I have not tried it but I won't after hearing this.

Svend

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2010, 11:50:29 am »
That is really too bad, then.? Dumb down a great ski and make its erstwhile replacement too stiff for most skiers to actually use.? Here is a link to see and overview of next year's lineup, or at least what Ski Depot is carrying:
http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=head2011

And I take back my comments about Head's women's skis having non-girlie graphics.? Just looking at the 2011 women's skis, they are downright awful.? I haven't showed these to Terryl yet, but they will most certainly have her wanting to keep her SS Speeds for another few years.? Blech!!!? ?And the Power One is not in the lineup....or perhaps Ski Depot just isn't carrying it.

OTOH, here is a really cool looking ski....the new Progressor 10+:?
http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=A09010&Category_Code=fisski2011&Product_Count=7
Looks like a slightly wider P9.? Flowflex binding, titanal layer, dual radius sidecut.....should be a sweet one.

It seems like Fischer is replacing (or renaming) their Heat line with the Motive line.? Some nice looking skis in that series too.? The Motive 84 looks like an interesting one -- SW construction, Flowflex binding (on a mid-fat? Wow!), perhaps more frontside oriented judging by the sidecut.

Edit/addition:? Just from looking at the lineup, it seems like Fischer is doing the opposite of Head -- strengthening their performance carver line with the new P10; making a serious performance mid-fat in the M84; and cleaning up the graphics on their all-mountain line to give them a more sporty/performance appearance.? Nice....

« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 10:16:35 pm by Svend »

gregmerz

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Re: Head iM78
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2010, 06:24:01 am »
The graphics are awful across the whole line...