Author Topic: New season ahead? What did I learn?  (Read 560 times)

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2009, 01:13:08 pm »
Chino and Dan/Eric are so similar!  yup, pretty much that would be his answer too. We also had some traversing drills for a couple who had some issues, but we would have the pole plant, release both edges  and engage the ankles to the inside pressuring big toe, little toe in conjunction with the pole plant. Pretty much all are similar but we wouldn't have you lift and tip; depending on the speed desired and pitch, kind of snow would dictate the severity of the tipping and weighting on each foot the new inside foot would have to move up and in as dictated by the amount of how aggressive you are with your turn (the tipping is in conjunction as well). (this is a little simplified). Fast groomers, 90/10 varied piled 45/45 -

jbotti

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2009, 01:18:30 pm »
Ron, how else would you ski that steep and gnarly terrain. I assume you make a series or short radius turns otherwise you will be going 60 mph fast on terrain that is beat up. So really the only question is how will we iniate and finish each short radius turn.. Will you get tall to initiate or will you flex to initiate each turn. Will you initiate with the LTE or with the big toe edge.

Of course I giess one could make a turrn and then ride the traverse until one has bled off enough speed and then initaite the next turn and the do the same. I am not looking to do that in my skiing and I don't think you are either. So then we are back to making SRT's to control our speed in the steeps.

Gary

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2009, 01:48:32 pm »
responding to what I do on the steeps and gnarly realative to big toe and little toe edge:

A solid pole touch, a release of the uphill edge, uphill ski by tiping the down hill ski(matching the snow surface), keeping connectivity of the both skis running surfaces to the snow. My edge pressure is now migrating between the big toe edge and little edge depending on snow surface but once crossig the fall line, I allow pressureing of the edges to migrate back to the uphill edge ready for the next touch, tip and release. This all happens very quickly in the steeps and gnarly and works well for me.

I'm there guys.....I want more! Bring on the snow!!!!  ;D

LivingProof

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2009, 02:10:20 pm »
Chino and Dan/Eric are so similar!? yup, pretty much that would be his answer too. We also had some traversing drills for a couple who had some issues, but we would have the pole plant, release both edges? and engage the ankles to the inside pressuring big toe, little toe in conjunction with the pole plant. Pretty much all are similar but we wouldn't have you lift and tip; depending on the speed desired and pitch, kind of snow would dictate the severity of the tipping and weighting on each foot the new inside foot would have to move up and in as dictated by the amount of how aggressive you are with your turn (the tipping is in conjunction as well). (this is a little simplified). Fast groomers, 90/10 varied piled 45/45 -

Ron,
I'm not sure what happened to the three pics that were up of Eric skiing, they may have been removed. There is one pic showing Eric with 100% of his weight on the LTE of his uphill ski with his legs very flexed. An educated guess is that this occurs a milli-second prior to his releasing by tipping his unweighted downhill ski. In a prior post, I commented that he displays movements that are classic PMTS, and, this is a perfect example. Harb calls this the Super Phantom turn.

When I think of fundamentals or essentials, tipping movements are the core fundamental of PMTS. I've always believed John C's four steps were very much in synch with PMTS fundamentals. Having said that in PMTS, we commit almost all weight to the downhill ski whereas I believe JC feathers more weight onto the uphill ski much earlier in the turn. It seems all three schools are pretty much in agreement about how to release to start a new turn. My local PSIA guys would not include this fundamental movement.

Could this pic be reposted?
PS - Any bad blood is Gary's fault. All last year he kept telling me how, shall I say stimulating, it is to post in this forum.


Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2009, 04:59:55 pm »
i can repost his pics - Long story short, I re-assured eric this wouldn't be a pissing match over his technique-

MIke not to belabor the point but I can promise you he doesn't have 100% of weight on any ski at any time in any of his turns. I mean he never skis with on one foot. Why? Especially in that terrain, Why would you ever want 1 edge on the snow when you can use two (when arced) for stability and balance? just like why use 1 ski when you can use two? It makes no sense to restrict your balance, power and ability to change direction and manage speed and direction in miliseconds if your ski is in the air or if it is bearing no weight (if it has no weight, you can' use it) you are only on half the possible snow contact at any given point?  What you are noticing is not classic PMTS, since the skier has no training whatsoever in PMTS, to claim his PSIA STYLE of skiing using a basic 2 footed ski technique as being PMTS is laughable at best Ironic at the least, but it shows that good skiing fundamentals are not restricted to any one technique.

 I don't know hwo your "local PSIA" guy is but since Eric is  PSIA Alpine demo team member, I suspect your local dude  (BTW- ERIC Skis at blue) needs to go back to training for sure. Where PMTS and John greatly differ is the use of two feet and the use of heavilly weighting the downhill edge. Where Modern PSIA skiing and JC have in common is using two feet, 4 edges, not liftiing skis off the ground, and using edges and weight based on terrain, speed and desired turn radius depending on need. Again, there's far more in common than what is different. BUt ski the way you want. I am certainly not here to convince you otherwise. Just respect the skills of others who may use a different technique than you prefer.

jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2009, 07:18:19 pm »
I too hope this doesn't become a Movement Analysis of Eric's skiing completely out of context.? There are other forums that have plenty of that in the context of people wanting MA.

I am NOT speaking as a spokesman for "official PMTS", but I haven't considered myself a one footed skier since the early days of trying to break my stem/wedge entry.? My understanding is that lifting the free foot is an exaggerated move for training and correction of a bad habit.? I stopped lifting that free foot several years ago, no one said a word about it at camp last year.? In fact, in spite of all the other things I do poorly (mostly balance and pole plant) I got a compliment from Diana last year on how well my skis engage (in my mind, I tip both skis pretty simultaneously but by thinking of tipping what USED to be the free foot first).

Lifting the free foot is probably what people most associate with HH's technique, but I see it as MERELY a teaching drill (aimed at what he saw as the biggest flaw in most of the skiers he targeted).? The key, as Gary said, is releasing that uphill edge.? Whatever drills or mental triggers help you get there, once you understand and can release the edge without lifting the foot, then I don't see any reason to lift the foot.

Correction: The other thing that one-footed skiing helped me get was the difference between balance and stability, but it was still just an exaggerated drill for me.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 07:30:38 am by jim-ratliff »
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midwif

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2009, 07:55:24 pm »
Ron,
Not to be a Gangbanger....... >:D

but you seem to have misconception of what is taught at both HH camps and at resorts.

PSIA is still teaching wedges, which are near impossible to unlearn without tremendous effort. (I stand by and listen every so often).
You are correct, a large majority of resort instructors seem to need to be re-instructed!! They are still teaching entry level skiing appropriate to straight skis.

You have had access to some of the best. Most people don't even know who the best are.

I agree with Jim. The "lifting and tipping" taught by HH is just to lose the "unholy" wedge. They move to just "lightening" and edge management after that.

Gee, that was fun. Time for a cigarette. ;) :D

« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 08:01:22 pm by midwif »
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Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2009, 04:13:45 am »
no ciggs please Lynn, how about a nice cappichino and a protien shake?   :D


my reference to one foot was mike asserton that Eric was skiing with one foot in a "classics PMTS Style", 100% pressure means one foot.  Perhaps there is some confusion about what PMTS classic position is within the group? :)   But there's a vid on youtube rght now with someone skiing steeps overtly lifting the new uphill foot on his turns.  I agree there is no need to teach wedges as measure to start turns and speed control   Interestingly, we were just using wedge turns to enter true chutes and to position your self in very tight conditions. its a skill that has it's place. its not the tradtional wedge skiing its more of a wedge braced with a pole plant leading into a turn. Its actually difficult to do.

jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2009, 08:03:58 am »
no ciggs please Lynn, how about a nice cappichino and a protien shake?? ?:D

Perhaps there is some confusion about what PMTS classic position is within the group? :)? ?

Yeah, I find myself confused quite a bit.  :-\ Guess I'm glad I included my legal disclaimer about not being a representative of formal PMTS.   
;D  Or maybe I got voted off the island and the notification got lost in the mail.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2009, 08:06:39 am »
I got banished a long time ago  ;D  lets form our own clan????

jbotti

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2009, 09:50:11 am »
While on the topic of skiing well off piste (and I will add the disclaimer that everyone knows that I am a dedicated PMTS student), I will say that that having a quality SRT turn that holds up in all terrain is what every good skier has. I will also say that it is clear that Harald Harb does not need to teach you for a skier to have a quality SRT. There is an amazing ridge in Montana where I ski. It has 40-45 degree pitch in areas. The lift that gets you back to it gives a great view to the ridge for 8-10 minutes. Every time I sit on that chair I watch the skers coming down. Those that ski it well have a SRT that enables them to stay in motion and control their speed in this difficult terrain. Those that don't have to stop alot or do long traverses to bleed off speed. I can also tell you that when you have a decent SRT, the whole experience of skiing off piste changes.

Again not saying that HH is the only place to learn a SRT, but I will say that I think that this is a major flaw in traditional ski instruction in that they aren't tecahing a parallel SRT that holds up in all conditions. I have a good friend who is a PSIA level 2 and a pretty solid skier. But when he gets in steep terrain he has to traverse much more becaiuse he has never developed a SRT that he can use in difficult terrain.

Many of the people being talked about are actually teaching some form of a quality SRT. I think JC clearly is (no direct experience) and possibly some of the others being mentioned (I have no first hand experience).

The only point I would make is if you are skiing off piste and you can't make solid SRT's then getting one that works and holds up (from whatever instructor or book you choose) is definitely the fastest way to improve. I work on them every day that I ski. I always work on them on easier off piste terrain first and try to dial them in. Then I go to dark blue terrain and work on them .Then I go to black terain and see how they hold up and then I do my best with them in double black terrain. If they are not holding up I go back to where they will hold up. And I always ask, what is breaking down. It usually comes down to the most basic flaws like rotating my upper body to help initiate the turns in steep terrain. Again we see this in all good skiers. They don't rotate to initiate turns and they have solid SRT's in all conditions.

Again with my bias, I do think that Harald Harb has put together a great set of drills and exercises that tecah and refine the SRT until as he says it is "bulletproof". But clearly Harlad, and Drills are not for everyone and that is what makes every horse race.

Now maybe if Ron and Gary make it to Montana this season we can all have some fun making SRT's together.




midwif

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2009, 11:05:39 am »
I got banished a long time ago? ;D? lets form our own clan????

Uh, Ron, we already did. Here.  ::)
Didn't you get the notice???? ;D ;D

Lynn
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Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2009, 01:11:52 pm »
have pity on the PSIA skier, please?  ;D

jbotti

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2009, 01:24:41 pm »
Hey, he's a close friend of mine and I have known him since grammar school. He gets no pity because he has had every opportunity to go outside his realm and seek out better intsruction and tools to help his skiing. I sent him Harald's books and videos long ago. But you know what, he enjoys every moment that he spends on the mountain. Who are any of us to argue with that!!

Peter has some more reviews up today. I best stop looking at them before I go buy 4 pairs of skis because it's the next best thing to actually skiing. Clearly the wrong reason to buy skis!!!

BTW, if anyone even gets remotely interested in buying or looking into the Anton Gliders, they should talk to me first. I demoed them for a half day last year and unlike Peter, i think that they are a poor ski to learn on as they reinforce a lot of bad habits in my opinion.

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2009, 02:49:22 pm »
I was joking about me as the PSIA skier! 

I saw the antons in Valle Nevado, the looked like some wierd 1960's contraption.  Off-piste, they can't be a good thing,  I was told they are very expensive!!!