Author Topic: New season ahead? What did I learn?  (Read 561 times)

jbotti

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 07:55:02 pm »
I think we are all on the same page. Often when you practice something the hardest it doesn't want to happen. Then a day later when the unconscious takes over the correct movement suddenly appears. As for "being in the zone" when we don't need to think but just be and react and everything has fallen into place, yeah, that's the best. Still I will use a golf analogy. Every good golfer and instructor knows that if you are thinking about your swing you might as well walk off the course because you WILL NOT play well. Yet all the best players use a swing key in almost every swing and it is the same throughout that day (and sometimes for weeks months or even careers). This is pretty much what I am talking about, and every really good skier I have known or spoken with has one or two different thoughts that they use as keys when they hit extremely challengng terrain. At its best a swing key/ a form thought can be the thing that actually releases the mind so that we can enter the zone. However if it leads us into a place where the mind takes over and some form of relaxing and doing disappears, the wrong thing has occurred. As with anything in life, finding that balance is so important, and essential to ski freely and well at the same time.

Again for me, those keys not only help release my mind, but the form that they help produce immediately diminishes my fear.

Having said all this, I have to admit that my tendency is to be always working on something. But those powder days where I just charge and all I thnk about is how fast I can get off the lift again, those are really special days as well. Where's the snow!!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 07:13:42 am by Ron »

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 07:10:55 am »
well said John! I will only sugest this, remove the "form" and ski or golf or whatever in the formless. When you attach form to the formless (formless is the skiing in this case not the phyiscal aspect but the mental aspect when you are skiing) we create and attach preconcieved expectations: fear, doubt or a set path of expected outcome; the skiing now becomes a set of instructions or rituals and the mind your "mind" now goes into action.? Ski "now" with what you know and not ski to the formed expectation.? Yeah too deep for a Friday?? :) so for instance, if when standing on the ridge dropping in, if i just did it, knowing that I can, i wouldn't have thought of the pitch or the fear of crashing or how my feet work or where my upper body should be or where to plant my pole..... Get it? It would be fluent and automatic.

I bolded a few key words above, hope you don't mind. Yes, I do believe I am there with you!

Just thought of a great event from the week:  Dan was talking to us at the start of the week.  What he said was this: We are all here skiing, we are skiing today and now, we are not skiing last season and anything that happened then is in the past, we know you (meaning all of us in the clinic) have the skills so we need to clear our mind of what was in the past and just ski. 
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 07:38:43 am by Ron »

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 10:06:24 am »
Just found this over at Epic,

http://www.epicski.com/wiki/fear-and-skiing

jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 10:24:53 am »
And the more "mature" we get, the more fear (or realization of potential consequences) is something we have to deal with.? And the more we appreciate the value of lessons and drills?

Example: I took a bad fall on the bicycle last year.? Split the helmet and foam for about 6" in the back.? A couple of other bikers on the trail (flat and paved, 1 mile South of DC's National Airport) found me and called 911.? They said I was out for about 15 minutes after they arrived and I have absolutely no recollection of how or why I fell.? However, it has been a real challenge this year to push my 60 year old body because of the "fear" of the unknown cause of that fall.? Prior to that, a severe fall on a bicycle wasn't something that was even a realistic possibility in my mind because I trusted my body and my balance.?

Kids, on the other hand, as we all know have very little fear.

I have really enjoyed this conversation.? Thank you one and all.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 10:39:49 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 10:45:13 am »
very true, and understood, that's part of why I wanted to go with my history of "events" shall we say. But if we don't overcome them or at least come to grips with them, it becomes limiting.  Surrendering to the fact I have been injured skiing (a few times now) and there is risk but then not permitting those inner voices to interfere with nonsensical thoughts is where I need to be. 45 or 70, it's the same thing. If you think that being 60 prohibits you from skiing deeper/steeper more technical stuff, ask yourself if the age is issue or is that what your inner voice uses as a justification or is there something else stopping you.  I can see the fear of crashing but I just skied with 2, 62 year olds who dropped an 800' chute with 45 degrees at the opening..... I didn't do it because I couldn't overcome the doubt I had although both Dan and Eric said i could ski it without issue. I can accept that but need to get over it. It just needs to happen. You can set a goal for it, that's just allowing yourself more time, you just have to do it.

midwif

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 11:00:41 am »
Really wonderful conversation, guys.
Thanks for opening up about an area with all deal with. :)
"Play it Sam"

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 11:36:50 am »
yeah, we all have issues. This is just the part that gets overlooked in our pursuit to becoming better skis (or whatever, for that matter) you have to be honest with yourself and really look for the reasons. Some times they aren't what we think they are. Sometimes they are useful crutches (usefull in terms of excuses) for our inner selves to lean on.  That little voice enjoys this and wants more. the more we feed into it, the stronger it gets and the more it grows.  I can tell you one thing that helped. Looking at the mountain differently. you can look at the mountain and think, "this is scary", this is going to be over my head, I am not fit for this, my leg hurts, my groin hurt s (:)) or I can look at the mountain and say , what a cool, friggin' awesome playground, it wants me to come climb and jump and explore me.... If I see the mountain as an enemy, I created an enemy, if It my friend, i have a friend.  Total Zen!

jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 11:52:58 am »
If you think that being 60 prohibits you from skiing deeper/steeper more technical stuff, ask yourself if the age is issue or is that what your inner voice uses as a justification or is there something else stopping you.? I can see the fear of crashing but I just skied with 2, 62 year olds who dropped an 800' chute with 45 degrees at the opening..... I didn't do it because I couldn't overcome the doubt I had although both Dan and Eric said i could ski it without issue. I can accept that but need to get over it. It just needs to happen. You can set a goal for it, that's just allowing yourself more time, you just have to do it.
Probably all of the above.? In this case, it wasn't fear of falling 'cause I do that all the time when I forget to twist out of the pedals.? My concern was whether my body was warning me of a heart attack or stroke; consequences I would not have considered as real at 45 but become more real as friends and neighbors have incidents.? There were four little hills this summer that I chose not to do (walked up instead) even though Lynn did them handily.? However, on subsequent rides I have done the first three of those (and I will get the fourth).? But I have to get outside my comfort zone a little bit at a time which then creates a new comfort zone, and then I can push that a little bit more.? However, I don't as yet look at little hills as a "wonderful playground".

Ron, my guess is that this winter you will do something equivalent to the chute that you chose not to do on that day, because you are committed.

Lynn: BTW, thanks for waiting for me at the top of those hills.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 12:05:22 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 12:10:28 pm »
Yup, exactly, that's the concept, but it's just gott be, I can't plan it. I skied crap I wouldn't have before already and in the mix of it, I have discoverd I really like jumping cornices! My biggest was a 10' drop.  The first cornice was about 7', The gang decided i needed to. It was right, I just skied up and jumped off, stuck the landing... I did it with total confidence, not that I didn't care, I just did it.

jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2009, 12:18:13 pm »
Yup, exactly, that's the concept, but it's just gott be, I can't plan it. I skied crap I wouldn't have before already and in the mix of it, I have discoverd I really like jumping cornices! My biggest was a 10' drop.? The first cornice was about 7', The gang decided i needed to. It was right, I just skied up and jumped off, stuck the landing... I did it with total confidence, not that I didn't care, I just did it.

Awesome.  It's clear in your tone of 'voice' how much confidence you gained on the trip.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2009, 01:08:54 pm »
yes except for the la' chiminea- I didn't take these.

This is the chute from a bit of distance at the bottom



Dan is looking in from the side.



Dan and Scott after the initial drop in.  Note Dan's hand against the snow.... nearly vertical


jim-ratliff

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2009, 01:55:17 pm »
WOW!!? Great camera work!!? ?:) :)  (and a lot of hard rocks).

That reminds me a lot of the place at Alta that Lynn led me to.? Wasn't as steep but was narrower, a lane between the trees.? I had no business there, took off skis and walked out!? ?;D
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 03:14:41 pm by jim-ratliff »
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2009, 04:45:13 am »
side slip it my friend!   ::) 

LivingProof

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2009, 09:20:36 am »
Ron,
Going back to your OP, your learning #1 was to get your feet and hips aligned as your hips were behind your feet. There is a pic in another thread where everything about you looks good, but, to my eyes, your hips are behind your feet and that's what you are working on.

Anyway, this weekend, I spent some time with my fav instructors book, Essentials of something or other. There is an entire chapter devoted to for-aft balance with a bunch of exercises on pulling back your feet rather than pushing hips forward. I put some boots on and did this dryland and it's pretty effective to feel the abdominal muscles pull the hips forward.

Centering is a Clendenin magic word too, but, I don't know how JC instructs students to do it.

No matter what your thinking is about HH as an individual, his body positions and lessons on how to get there work.

Ron

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Re: New season ahead? What did I learn?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2009, 10:43:02 am »
:)  everyone has the same fundamentals! Jim and I were discussing this the other day. Yes, Dan Egan teaches pulling the feet back, Eric Lipton PSIA Alpine Demo team teaches big toe, little toe, articluating the ankles in the boots while keeping the center of mass stacked..... sound familiar? Yup it all is.  not sure of the picture you are referencing but chances are they were, I didn't really get forward to the extent I wanted until the last 2 days!  But that said, I am not overly concerned. I want to ski and have fun. If I just keep driving my body forward-agonally; which again, all teach, half of the battle is done.   A great drill we did in the restaurant at lunch one day was the door way drill. Stand in the center fo a doorway and feel the movement as you move your body forward-agonally. Also, practice simply jumping and lifting your tails off the ground to keep that forward feeling.  Stop skiing around your poles and ski through them! This was a huge help. plant and "shift" forward as you ski past, don't let them get behind you.