Westward bound

[Ron]

look forward to it. John, what's your weight and height? What length are the LP's?

[midwif]

Adding a few cheap, quasi copper cents.
Was comparing notes a few weeks ago with Jim after our last ski trip.
I mentioned that I had felt more Confident skiing powder on my older iC160's than my current Et's.
Even the Salomon Foils I rented to demo, were not the panacea I thought they would be in the powder.

What it came back to ( for me) was ....TECHNIQUE!!! or lack there of, to be exact.
The iC's were softer (hated the chattering tip on higher speeds on PP.ice in the northeast)
Jim thinks they are a softer ski and perhaps, in some ways, handled the powder better.

Thanks JB for bring this aspect up. A very interesting conversation to explore. Technique vs lack  of. Degree of technique benefitting wider/less so skis

I will have fun trying out my "new" Maunga skis in (hopefully) deep snow this next season.

Ron, you are fortunate to be able to have the opportunity to "practice" so much in powder!!!
Look forward to seeing you guys next season.
Lynn

[jbotti]

Well, there is quite a bit to respond to. Let me start by saying that when we are skiing powder, there really is only one right way to ski, and that is with a big smile!! If we are having fun in the soft fluffy stuff, the we are doing a lot right. As for how technique helps me, when I was woiking on the deep felx, high counter turn, I was immediately able to cut very short radius turns at speed in steeps, without ever needing to traverse to control my speed. If anyone ever finds they would like some better speed control in steep powder, then I think this turn can help. The deep flexion releases the skis immediately (not always so easy for me in pow when I am standing striaght up) and they release at any speed (also harder for me in pow at speed with extended legs. But for me the second part of the turn is the real key. Using LTE tipping, and agressive counteracting movemenst, I can make the inside ski bite and drive into the hill very early in the turn and this gives me a great ability to control my speed. It also can be used almost in place of a hop turn, because I can bite the inside ski hard into the snow and stop in no more than a ski length in very steep terrain (if I want). Essentially I am varying the amount of inside ski bite on each turn depending on how fast I want to ski. For me this makes for very fluid skiing, I find it easier on my body, I never have to traverse to slow down, and I don't need to alter it at all in bumps. Of course all of this is my experience and others may enjoy skiing differently.

I would say that my main point was more about how each time my skiing technique improves by a noticable degree, hard terrain becomes much easier on any ski. I guess this is very obvious. As it relates to powder skis, I guess the point that I would make is that there is a trade off between float, and ease of tipping (which is always higher with a thinner ski). In powder as Ron points out we have so many different choices and most of them are fun. It is easy to stay upright and just drift and slide the taills, and the skis come around real easy, and even easier with a rockered tail (as there is no resistance and the taills will pivot with almost no effort). For me in short radius turns? (using the deep flexion, tip and counter approach) the wider skis (specifically the Lhasa Pows) were more work, as it took more to tip them on edge. But they were easier to ski when I wanted to pivot some from a more upright position. But this techniqoe has consitently let me down when I need speed control. In flatter terrain iit's great and a blast, but at 45 degress in tight chutes with bumps (where I need a solid short radius turn) the Lhasa Pows were and are a lot more work.

At the end of the day for, the deep flexion, short radius turn feels superior to me in that it holds up in all the most difficult conditions. Hence I am choosing to make this my default move in the pow and all off piste skiing. This way I am constantly practicing it and getting better at it.

I will be the first to say that again that there are a zillion ways to have fun in pow, and none are more right than the way I am choosing.

Gary, yes I think weight plays a big role here. Harald is 150 lbs and skis 2 feet of fresh on Super Shapes with no issue. I find it much harder in 2 feet with SS's. A good percenteage is my technique (no where near Harald's) but some precentage is me weighing 185 vs 150. I think there is a nice balance between float and ability to tip. My sense is that you are good at picking skis that both fit you and work for your technique. I am not in the camp that everyone would be better off on skis between 125 and 145 under foot because there is more float. There are just too many othere factors to skiiig well and enjoyment that go beyond just float. My wife would never be able ski on a 115mm ski, but she does great on a 78mm underfoot in the pow.

Ron, I am not selling my LP's. They are great skis, and I will still use them. I am 6 3" 185 and the LP's are 186. However I do think that I will lose my DP Lotus 138's.

Phil, I am also sorry that we didn't get to ski together. Next year for sure.

I am headed back to MT for my last weekend of skiing. It comes with both excitement and sadness. There is always spring skiing in Tahoe, and then race camp at MT Hood. This will not be my last time on skis this year, but we are getting close!!

[Gary]

Hey Ron...thanks for getting those videos posted correctly for me.....I'm such a neophyte when it comes to that stuff.

JB....I'm on the same ship when it comes to technique and ability for all conditions. That's why I like to keep stuffing new ski tools into my bag....exposing myself (careful Jim) to new and exciting mountain challenges. Having skied my SS in shin high snow this past December at Steamboat it certainly can be done and is loads of fun cause....WE WERE SKIING SHIN HIGH POW....I skied all day and took out the Pilgrims the following day. I found both skis allowed me to experience (feel) different motions and both skis allowed me to experience different kinds of turn shapes from carves to swipes to wipes when I was in the bumps, and playing along the off camber edges......yep...al l good!

The real thrill comes when you realize the advantages and disadvantages, the different characteristics and what "enjoyment factors" you are looking to extract from your ski experience that day.

For me like the rest of my ski brothers and sisters....we're always looking for more ways to have more smiles when dancing on the mountain!

Best,
G

[Ron]

Thanks John, great explanation!? Sounds like a page right of John Clendenins book Skiing using uphill edge and varying the pressure and angle depending on terrain and needs is exactly what he teaches except that you have to use your pole plant as your trigger for the turns. This is a skill that is sorely neglected by many (including myself) but once you incorporate this into your turns, you will see an immediate improvement. I always view the deep flex and extension like a corkscrew; as you compress you are turning your upper body (counter) toward the next turn and flattening your skis (float), much like a cork screw going into a cork, this causes the skis to release (flatening) while pivoting/turning/drifting, as you extend and stand, you engage theuphill edge; like a cork screw pulling the cork out or biting/edging into the snow. This is exactly how I ski the tighter trees and terrain. Welcome to the Clendenin method! not sure if you are thinking I am just sliding my tails out (although it's a tool I sometimes use), I ski stacked and use the uphill outside edge with a very slight lifting and angling (you could say tip) of the uphill edge to engage and turn (in this vid), we allow the skis to flatten and then drift towards the intended direction and then engage the uphill edge while scraping and pulling the uphill edge towards the downhill ski. That TR may be inches or yards, depending on the need and you may not even have to pull back the ski or engage the edges much. It's very slight in those videos and you may not see it due to the depth of the powder but on steep terrain and bumps it's quite obvious. Gary is doing the same in his video.

[jim-ratliff]

To all that are headed West -- Have a really great Easter weekend sliding around on and in the snow.

For all the rest of us -- Have a really great Easter weekend wishing you were skiing and dreaming of (and getting ready for) skiing next winter.

And don't forget that Ron owes Ed a dollar??? ?

[Ron]

So far.....