Author Topic: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?  (Read 1203 times)

John

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2006, 04:24:12 pm »
I ski at Big Mountain in Whitefish. Montana The conditions of the snow vary from chowder to powder to groomed depending on the snow storm that comes through. I tried Elan Magfire 10's at 168 and really liked the transition I could make between snow conditions. I'm still shy of real powder and consider myself an advanced intermediate who does a few blacks on the front side, but nothing like my grown kids. I prefer the blue runs and the Magfire's felt so good in various conditions that I bought a pair for this year. I think I can grow into them and they will forgive my mistakes to a degree. Anyone else with Elan Mag 10 experience?

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2006, 07:54:07 am »
Hey John, looks like good ski weather has blanketed your area....coming this way!

Knowing your height and weight would be helpful.

I have skied the Elan Magfire and enjoyed versatility of that ski. I do think it makes a good one quivver ski that will help you deal with a variety of terrain. Although I'm a big believer, especially as an advanced intermediate,  that you should be skiiing on something in the 63-66mm waist to really help your carving skills but if it's one ski you want, then the Mag is a great choice.

Best,
Gary


Ron

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2006, 10:25:19 am »
Gary  " I'm 5' 9" 210lbs and love skiing fast on hard snow and ice, I struggle in soft snow and crud. Would ski and length would you suggest?"

go back and read his first couple of posts. I think you will see why Michael and I are suggesting the 82's or alike. He wants them for "deep" crud and slop. I don't see the value in just going to a mid 70's ski.  Your .02?

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2006, 01:25:58 pm »
Ron, my thoughts were here's a guy like my buddy Ed...who is 6'1, 215lbs, advanced intermediate? who purchased his 72's based on my reccomendation.

Ed? loves his 72's for carving, crud and boot to shin high powder. I just think if someone at this level goes to wide, they're missing on the learing experience of being able to get good edge angle on skis. I just think it's much more difficult for this level skier to improve carving skills on the wider boards.

I believe the 72 can be a great tool as a one quivver ski for the 200lb. I've skied with John Clenden, the Ski Doctor at Aspen and he makes em dance.

I also thought he wanted a ski that would perform well in groom terrain as well.

For me, it's about the improvement in skill level with a ski the user can maixmize edge angle within? a comfortable turn radius.

I think Harolds article regarding fat skis says it pretty well.

Gary


Ron

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2006, 01:52:28 pm »
OK, so lets see if I can answer for yet another poster!  John, Buck, bill, sandy, whoever!  Ok, Buck,- 82's, John, 72's or Ac2's Head 800's (gary?)

I am going home! 

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2006, 02:24:09 pm »
Thanks ROn,..crossed wires..but yep...what you said!

Have a great weekend gang!


Gary

John

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 06:09:06 pm »
Gary:

Thanks for the information. I am 5' 9'' and 175 lbs. I also ski K2 Apache's with a 68 wiastline for groomers. Big Mountain snow can get chopped up pretty good by the kids and mother nature. I was looking for something to get me through these changing conditions because my skills alone arn't enough. Maybe one day. I got interested in the Elan Magfires after trying  K2 public enemy. They allowed me to be quick on chop and heavy snow but didn't seem to transition well for me. A local ski shop owner recommended the Magfires. I tried them for two days in various conditions and felt comfortable with their stability and reaction. I debated many other skis as a second choice but kept coming back to them. I'll let you know how they do this Chritsmas. My goal is to ski 30 days this year from Banff to Fernie to Big Mountain.

John

Ron

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2006, 06:50:44 am »
John, ski on what you ski well on:)  The MAgfire series is a great line, the 10 and 12 are awesome skis that will go very well from groomed to crud. Its a strong ski not for the meek. I think if you have tried it and seem to do well on it, go for it. Skiing crud is just like skiing the groomed for ther most part; especially if its loose crud. Try to ski it just like a groomed run and see how you do. The key with the crud is not let your skis go flat, this is where folks get into trouble. IF they are flat, they will tend to pop up and send you off balance.  Make your turn transitions lightening quick, do not let the skis run flat for more than it takes to throw your weight across the fall line and into the next turn. If you tense up and ride it flat, that's where you will pay! IT takes a little time to get used to it but my instructor says it this way; You don't cut butter with the side of your knife, you cut butter with the edge, its the same thing.

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2006, 10:10:23 am »
Ron, I kinda almost agree with you....(and this may open up a completely new topic)

In the crud, I feel you need to control speed, flaten the skis between transition in the course of moving your body down hill. But not rushing this transition. The other part is finishing each turn with the skis across the moutain or back up the hill depending on your need to control speed.

I believe learning to float your skis (flat in transition) is key to all mountain skiing.

Rapid fire edge changes (with less time in float) can be used on less step terrain in low crud...but when the terrain steepens and the crud deepens...float the boat baby, float the boat!

Hey John, thanks for weight update....so what is it you really are trying to accomplish with your ski selection....a bit confused.

Gary

Ron

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2006, 11:09:37 am »
GAry, if its soft than you can cheat and float it  but if its wet slop than you can't flatten or you will go flying off the peaks.

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2006, 11:17:38 am »
The float at least the way I learned it is the middle step the allows smooth transition in all terrain. Now if you're running tight gates you would set hard edge to hard edge. But skiing smooth and effortless down the mountain there is no "cheat" about the float. It as natural as babies first steps.

This works in slop, bumps, crud, cruisers, powder....It's magical and makes skiing much more relaxing and less energy sapping.

Will demonstrate what I mean when we get together at BC.
G

Ron

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2006, 11:31:48 am »
We'll compare, the way we were taught was for fast skiing ther is very little effort as well, just throw you body across the fall ine to accellerate the transition. If you are skiing more straight on loose light stuff, then yes, you can float it, but if it gets steep, you have to turn more.  We've got tons to play around with!

jim-ratliff

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 11:55:44 am »
I would love to hear the follow-up on this, when you can each see what the other is doing and then to hear what words you use to describe it.

For example, I can't visualize what Ron means when he says that he just "throws his body across the fall line".? I'm not sure how you do that without a stem-christie push from the uphill foot.

Similarly, I think I understand what Gary is describing in the float, but it's little more than aggressively relaxing the downhill foot so that the body crosses the skis (as with Ron, but minus the push and extension?).? In fact (Gary/JBooti? :D ??) I know it was in the early books, but does Harald still talk about 'the float' or has it been replaced by an emphasis on retraction?

Ron, what are you describing when you talk about 'flying off the tops in wet slop if the skis are flat'.? That just sounds like you need more absorption (or different timing of where you turn), but I know you are a better skier than such an obvious assessment?
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2006, 12:03:00 pm »
Interestingly, I think some of what we are saying is similar..

Even when skiing slow or fast, long turns, quick turns, there is a fraction of a second and sometmes more where the skis flatten to the snow...this is that magical point; unless the skier picks up their ski and physically sets edge to edge which is how I used to ski.

Iin deep snow the float stays a bit longer.

My wife a few years back ?was a definete "get me out of the crud" skier. Now with her ability to float the skis between transition, she loves the stuff.



G

Gary

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Re: Which All Condition Ski would You Buy?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 12:15:26 pm »
Jim, what I think Ron is referring to is that during transition, you relax the downhill leg, lift, tip, float and let the body move down the mountain. This makes the transition flow very naturally to the new downhill ski. No stem is involved at all.

Also JIm, you can float with no or minimul retraction. Retraction comes in during higher speeds and more varied terrain. My last experience with Harold at a camp and his Book 2. float was key.

Retraction was a very difficult concpet for me to understand although I did it naturally in transition. I really never had to think about it..it just happened.

The thing I do understand about what Ron was saying that in the slop if you stay flat on your skis to long you're abilty to carve MAY diminish.  Now reasons for this maybe to get rid of some speed as in drifting, but if you're flat on the skis and don't understand the transition process, one could be in for a wild pony ride on the back of their skis.

Add to all this aggressive pole plants when needed, strong counter rotation and hey, we're all having a dilly of a day!

Gary