Author Topic: FF14 binding setting for female skier, Head SS Speed  (Read 660 times)

Svend

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FF14 binding setting for female skier, Head SS Speed
« on: March 03, 2008, 04:03:16 pm »
My wife skis on Head Supershape Speeds, which have the FF14 binding, CP13 plate.  This is set at the factory-recommended position, which I believe is ball of foot at the center mark of the ski (correct me if I'm wrong).  Having read that women's-specific skis being made now are mounting the bindings slightly forward to compensate for the lower center of gravity of women vs. men, should we consider trying the binding more forward than it is now? If so, how much?  I wouldn't ask this question if it didn't look like a significant project to do this....I'd just do it, but it's not like a Railflex where you can just loosen a screw and merrily move as you please.  The shop guy told us he would have to redrill....not exactly a tempting proposition.  Is the shop guy out to lunch? Pardon my lack of knowledge, but aren't all those holes in the plate meant for remounting the bindings forward or back?

I should qualify, my wife isn't having any balance problems (at least not on skis  ;) ) or trouble initiating turns.  She'd just like to try the bindings in a new position to see what effect it has, and if this is easy to do, let's have at it.

Cheers,

Svend

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jim-ratliff

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viking:

welcome.  All those holes are actually for mounting various size boots.  In my case, I have a 314 mm boot sole, so the binding mounts in the front hole for the toe piece and I couldn't move it forward any more (without redrilling, as you say). However, if your wife's boot sole length is short enough that the toe piece doesn't screw into the frontmost hole, then you may be able to move the toepiece forward a bit by removing the binding from the plate and screwing it down in a bit farther forward holes.  I played around some with that, and the threads appeared to be self-tapping.  For what it's Worth, there is also some finer adjustment underthe heelpiece (a little lever that you lift up) and the forward pressure also needs to be checked after you move them (if you do)l

Harald Harb, who knows Head skis is the first that I heard recommending that all Railflex skis be skied in the +15 position,but he and Diana recommend skiing the CP13 plate in the default position, and that has worked well on my i.SL Chips with the CP13 plate and LD12 bindings. 

Just information, not sure to recommend whether you try to move the bindings forward or ask the shop to try to find a forward mounting position of the bindings on the plate. I would not recommend re-drilling the skis.
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Svend

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Hey Jim,

Thanks for the very informative reply.  Like I said, it's not like my wife is having any problems at the moment, but I thought that if this was as easy as the RF bindings to play with, then why not give it a whirl.  FWIW, I've adjusted my RF bindings on my Monsters from +15 to 0, and it made a very noticeable improvement in my balance.  Tweaking the positioning is a neat thing to play with to fine tune performance.  But, as for the SS Speeds, it seems to me like it's best to leave well enough alone and not mess things up.  Goes against my Germanic technical upbringing, though, not to disassemble everything and put it back together again better than before....must....r esist....(gritting teeth)....

Of interest is that she just had some lessons at Whiteface last week (great place!!!), and the instructors had her on some challenging black runs for about 4 hours.  They could not identify any significant stance or balance problems, even on the steep stuff. Some minor tweaks in positioning were all that was needed.  No issues with turn initiation, carving, edging, etc..  All is well....perhaps too good, in fact, as she consistently beats me down the slopes by a country mile.  I'm presently looking for new, faster skis to remedy this discrepancy  ;).

Best regards,

Svend
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 06:29:19 pm by Viking »

jim-ratliff

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Viking:
Well, I'm not Germanic, but I do share you propensity to take things apart to see how they work.? It's interesting.? As I said, I don't see anything wrong with moving the bindings around on the platej, because those screws are just into the metal plate and not into the ski.? FWIW, I also have a theory that the rjubber bumper on the front of the plate and the plate itself actaully participate in putting more pressure forward when the ski begins to flex, similar in some respects to moving the whole binding forward on the Railflex.?

 ;D? And it isn't about how fast you get to the bottom of the mountain, it's about how much fun (or challenge) it is getting there.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 09:34:00 am by jim-ratliff »
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Svend

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Hmmm...maybe moving the binding is easier than it looks.  I'll look into this a bit more.  I downloaded the Tyrolia tech manual from a link on this forum, so I'll have a boo at it to see what's involved.  From what you've said, it sounds pretty straightforward.

As for keeping up with my wife, believe me, it's not a testosterone thing.  I have no emotional difficulties or insecurities associated with her skiing way faster than me.  8)  I know lots of guys who would love to get their wives out on the slopes just once or twice per season, but it ain't happenin', much to their frustration.  I can't keep mine off of them.  Nice situation to have, believe me.  It's just that I'd like to be able to keep up to her for a change, and not feel like I'm slowing her down when we ski together.  Major fun is being had no matter what the speed  ;D

Thanks again for the input, and if we end up tweaking the bindings, I'll post back here again and let you know how it worked out and what difference it made to her skiing.  Maybe there'll be some interesting info for female skiers on FF bindings....we'll see....

All the best,

Svend

jim-ratliff

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Hmmm...maybe moving the binding is easier than it looks.? I'll look into this a bit more.? I downloaded the Tyrolia tech manual from a link on this forum, so I'll have a boo at it to see what's involved.? From what you've said, it sounds pretty straightforward.

As for keeping up with my wife, believe me, it's not a testosterone thing.? I have no emotional difficulties or insecurities associated with her skiing way faster than me.? 8)? I know lots of guys who would love to get their wives out on the slopes just once or twice per season, but it ain't happenin', much to their frustration.? I can't keep mine off of them.? Nice situation to have, believe me.   It's just that I'd like to be able to keep up to her for a change, and not feel like I'm slowing her down when we ski together.? Major fun is being had no matter what the speed? ;D .?

Thanks again for the input, and if we end up tweaking the bindings, I'll post back here again and let you know how it worked out and what difference it made to her skiing.? Maybe there'll be some interesting info for female skiers on FF bindings....we'll see....

All the best,

Svend

You are right.? Many (including me) envy the fact that you both love skiing.
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jim-ratliff

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My wife skis on Head Supershape Speeds, which have the FF14 binding, CP13 plate.? This is set at the factory-recommended position, which I believe is ball of foot at the center mark of the ski (correct me if I'm wrong). 
Cheers,

Svend

Missed this the first time.  Default factory recommended position is the "mid-sole of boot mark" over the "center of the ski" mark.  Peter's recommended alignment is "ball of foot" over the "center of the running surface of the ski".  The center mark on the ski isn't the center of the running surface as Peter relates in his articles about the research done at snowbird several years back, and the center of the boot also doesn't correlate to ball of foot.  I think head has been moving their default binding positions forward a bit, might be interesting to check and see where your wife is currently in the BOF over Center of Running Surface scheme.
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Svend

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Jim,

Not sure what "center of running surface" exactly means.  Is this the mid-point from where the tip and tail touch the snow? I assume there is no mark already scribed into the ski indicating this point.  So...it has to be measured...right? Taking this further, in measuring, I assume that the victim dons her boots, places same in binding on flat, hard surface, and the contact points to the floor at tip and tail are marked, then midpoint determined from there.  BOF is then marked on boot, binding adjusted until marks line up....am I getting this right?

As I write this, said skis are presently in high-velocity contact with some fresh snow (why aren't I out there too?).  But with your feedback on the above, I can check this out in the next couple of days. 

BTW, I quickly scanned through Realskiers site, but couldn't find a method for adjusting, such as you describe.  Some good background articles there on binding position, though.  I'll read them more thoroughly when I have more time.

BR,

Svend

jim-ratliff

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Scroll down and find the posts by Lou Rosenfeld at the Epic link http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=45334 .? He was the author of the research for Nordica (I believe) that was done a few years back at SnowBird using the Campbell balancer to determine the optimal balance point, and arrived at the BOF over Center or Running Surface approximation.? ?

Peter also posted the results of the testing under "Articles" here at Realskiers.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 01:19:04 pm by jim-ratliff »
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jim-ratliff

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Not sure what "center of running surface" or "BOF"exactly means.?
Svend

Hopefully you already found the full write-up in the articles.? Readers Digest version.
Center of running surface.? Squish the skis together base to base and measure the distance where the surfaces touch, and then find the middle of this touching surface.? That is the center of the running surface.? Similar to what you said, it's the midpoint of the part of the ski that touches the snow, it is NOT the mark on the ski where the mid-point of the boot should be.
BOF.? Put your boot on and tap on the big toe side of the boot shell until you find where the ball of your foot is in the boot.? Mark this point on the boot.

For optimal balance on the ski, the BOF mark should be directly over the Center of Running Surface mark.

In general, factory mount point for French-feel skis will be pretty close to this while the factory mount point for Austrian-feel skis will be considerably rearward (10-20mm) of this point.
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Svend

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Hey Jim,

The latest is that I moved my Railflex bindings forward to the +15 position -- what a difference! Way better balance, easier turn initiation, better control of the tips for steering, better agility on the steep stuff, and no perceptible loss of speed (was even able to catch my wife on a couple of runs, although she "claims" she was just relaxing).  Makes my iM70s feel like new skis.  I did not do the BOF-CRS thing...this was a quick side-of-the-slope tweak to see what would happen.  Good one, and I am not moving em back again. Will still do the BOF-CRS check just to see where they are at.  Have not had time to do this with the missus SS Speeds, but will let you know when I do.

Thanks!

Svend

PS -- I read your thread with Brad re. Railflex...maybe he might benefit from my comments...?

jim-ratliff

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Svend:

Thanks for the update.? Your experience is not uncommon, and an excellent description.? My gut feel is that your wife won't notice as much of a difference; all based on Harald Harb (and Diana's) recommendation and the fact that the CP13 plate somehow contributes some of the same effects as moving the bindings forward on the Railflex.

If you get a day of boot high powder, you may want to move them back to 0 for that.

Yes, Brad should do the same evaluation on his RX8's once he gets them mounted.? Hope he reads this.? As you are probably aware, he is well into his 50's and while you can lead an old horse to water, it's hard to teach him new tricks.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2008, 03:49:50 pm by jim-ratliff »
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Svend

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Quote
...while you can lead an old horse to water, it's hard to teach him new tricks.
Talk about mixed metaphors! Is that the converse of not being able to teach an old dog to drink the water you've led him to?  :D ;) Poor Brad, he's going to be totally confused now.  He won't know whether to stick his head in a pond or roll over and shake a paw.

jim-ratliff

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He won't know whether to stick his head in a pond or roll over and shake a paw.
VERY good.
ROTFLOL? ? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? ;D? :D
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

bf_hill

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Hey Jim,

PS -- I read your thread with Brad re. Railflex...maybe he might benefit from my comments...?

Svend

So I get this personal email from Jim suggesting I might benefit from this discussion since I bought new RX8's with a railflex system.? Lo and behold, Svend has read Jim's and my discussion about my new skiis with railflex bindings and I see my name!? Apparently with some Tomfoolery, more on THAT later.? Yes, it is VERY interesting and I plan to look at the bindings when I get to Vermont to check them out.? I will have to try Jim's BOF and CRS rule of thumb measures and compare them to the current mounted position.? And yes, I will try moving them forward.? I had read about moving them forward in other threads but this one (sorry I by-passed it, perhaps b/c of the term "female".? Lesson learned) was very interesting.

So thanks Jim and Svend for thinking of me!? I will certainly report back on my findings.? I am starting to think that I should have had the skis shipped directly to me and I should have hauled them up to Vermont so I could play with them....

Brad