realskiers

Skis and Gear Discussion => Gear Garage => Topic started by: Svend on April 10, 2012, 07:14:21 am


Title: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 10, 2012, 07:14:21 am
I'm looking for some feedback from anyone familiar with the Dalbello Krypton Pro boots.  I've been interested in these for some time, since I tried on a pair a couple of years ago and found them to be an exceedingly good fit, and had a very smooth progressive flex pattern.  Didn't end up buying them, but have had them in the back of my mind ever since. 

As of the end of this season, I'm finding my own boots (Tecnica Inferno 110) a bit on the soft side, and somewhat lacking in edge grip.  They are a very good fit for me right out of the box, but they do come up short in performance at times.  Side note:  I will try to up their performance with some Booster straps, which I will try in Banff in a couple of weeks, but in the end, I think I might need like some new boots.

The 3-piece boot design seems to be gaining some traction, with Nordica's introduction of the Firearrow line, and Dalbello's expansion of their own model lines.  The Kryptons certainly have their devotees, if some of the reviews on Epic are to be believed.  And their advantages seem to be numerous wrt. easy adjustment of flex, alignment and fit.

So...has anyone here have experience with these? Skis, or has skied in them?

In particular, I am concerned about two things:  rebound and power to the edge.  For rebound, I have read that the 3-piece boots do not have the same ability to help the skier return to neutral, as does a good overlap boot.  Is this true?

And regarding edge grip, I want my next boots to have better edge grip than my Tecnicas.  When I switched from a Lange Comp Pro to the Inferno, I lost a significant amount of edge grip, just by switching boots.  And I want it back, darn it!

Any other pros and cons of these boots that you know of, let's hear it....

Thanks!

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: LivingProof on April 10, 2012, 08:13:09 am
Svend,

My boot review experience is very limited as I've been in traditional 4 buckle Nordica Speedmachine 130 for 4 full seasons. In Tahoe, I tried on several 130 4 buckle designs to determine if I could downsize, but, all were very painful at the toe area.

Going back several seasons, Dalbello had many advocates in the Epic forums, but, the majority seemed to be western soft snow skiers. In this forum, Bushwacker continues to ski Dalbello ( I believe, in part, because he has very wide foot ). High Angles skis on both Dalbello and a 4 buckle Head, so, I hope he will comment. The Epic reviews of the new 3 buckle Nordica Firearrow are mixed. Harb is not a fan of either Dalbello or Technica, and he sure knows boots. Harbs thinking is that stiff boots keep you centered better as pushing boots forward is wasted energy.

I detect a growing movement from Dalbello back to 4 buckle, Philpug and Ron made the transition after years of major Dalbello love. Both don't look back.

At your size and growing skill level, I say go for a 130 4 buckle design. You need to go through the process of trying each for fit. I would be surprised if most who post here would disagree with the 130 4 buckle design recommendation. I would wait a year and see if Fisher gets their fitting/liner issues resolved on the new 130 shrink wrap boots.

 I don't think Booster straps will aide you existing boots, I have a pair not in use, so, if you want them, let me know.

 
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 10, 2012, 12:20:38 pm
If the shell fits and it's the right flex then it's a good boot for you.  However, I find that most people are led astray by the boot liner.  Ignore the liner and find the shell that best matches your foot.  Try lots and lots of shells.  I think I tried everything available until I found that the Head Raptor shell matches my foot best.  Get your foot into the smallest shell possible.  I believe that skiers looking for a performance fit should strive for the least amount of liner between their foot and the shell.  That's what leads to a truly responsive boot fit.  If you have a very good fit then you will have good circulation which means you will have warm feet.

I skied in the original Dalbello Krypton for one season when it was first introduced.  I found that the shell didn't match my foot well enough and went back to skiing in Flexon/Full Tilt shells.  I had tried a number of times to go to a traditional 2-piece 4-buckle boot, but those attempts were not accompanied by an exhaustive search like I went through last season.  Now that I've spent a lot of time skiing in the Head Raptor 130RS and B3 RD I can't imagine ever being able to get the same performance out of the currently available 3-piece boots.  But that's just me - YMMV.  I do miss the easy on/off of a 3-piece though (but lots of silicone spray definitely helps with the Raptors  :D).

Note that next season Dalbello will have the new KR2, the second generation of the Krypton shell.  The new shell owes a lot to the Scorpion line of racing-inspired boots and has a much more anatomical fit.  I tried on the 26, but I'm really a 25 shell and those won't come out of manufacturing until next Fall.  Nonetheless, I think that the KR2 is significantly improved and well worth waiting for if you're seriously considering the Krypton.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 10, 2012, 08:15:40 pm
Mike -- any particular reason why Harb doesn't like Tecnica? Not that I hang on his every word (or any of his words, for that matter, not being one of his disciples), but I'm interested to know.  FYI, the Krypton Pro is a narrow-lasted boot (98mm) with a stiff flex which is adjustable up to 140 using replaceable tongues and spine widgets.  I don't think it will be too soft fore-aft  :D and will be a substantial bump up the stiffness scale from my Inferno 110's. 

I should point out, however, with flex indices varying so much between brands, the 110 on my Tecnicas feels about the same as the 120 did on my Langes.  Just laterally not as powerful as the Langes. 

That said, I am definitely ready for a 130.  I found that with my present boots, driving a stout ski like my Mythics through crud and heavy snow was not as "assertive" as I would have liked.

H-A:  thanks for your insight.  I take it that you have nothing against the Krypton, in general? Any reason why the performance isn't up to a good 2-piece shell? This is really the crux of my question, so curious to know more.

And no worries, I'm savvy to the shell fit being paramount.  When testing boots, my first try is always with the liner out.  Although I must admit that I've been paying attention only to the lower shell around forefoot and instep.  I should probably learn what to look for in a good shell fit at heel and upper cuff as well.

BTW, the Krypton I tried a few years ago was different from today's design.  The new shell has been altered a bit in the forefoot, making it roomier there, but retaining the narrow fit elsewhere.  I haven't tried this latest version on for size. But what you said about the next year's changes have me interested.  I will try to find more on this and see if it's worth the wait.

As an aside, I had an interesting conversation with a boot guy in a local shop here re. the differences between Tecnica and Lange wrt. edge grip.  His response was that the shell shape (rounded vs. flat where foot meets shell), the solid build of the lower shell to the inside of the foot, and the positioning of the foot laterally over the inside edge of the ski, were some of the reasons that Langes have such excellent edge power. 

My Tecnicas are actually an excellent fit.  I'm normally a 27.5, but these are a 26.5.  They feel like surgical gloves, completely enveloping my feet with even pressure.  Especially snug heel, instep, and cuff hold.  No hot spots, no grinding needed, and warm too (= good circulation).  Just a bit of fore-aft and cuff alignment was all they needed.  I can ski in them all day without aches or pains.  They are so close in fit, in fact, that if I wear a medium-thickness ski sock instead of my usual thin ones, my feet hurt after 30 minutes.  I don't think I could ask for a better shell fit from a 2-piece boot.  If I was confident that a 130 flex version of the same shell would give me better edge power, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair on the spot. 
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 11, 2012, 05:07:21 am
Svend,

My boot review experience is very limited as I've been in traditional 4 buckle Nordica Speedmachine 130 for 4 full seasons. In Tahoe, I tried on several 130 4 buckle designs to determine if I could downsize, but, all were very painful at the toe area.

Going back several seasons, Dalbello had many advocates in the Epic forums, but, the majority seemed to be western soft snow skiers. In this forum, Bushwacker continues to ski Dalbello ( I believe, in part, because he has very wide foot ). High Angles skis on both Dalbello and a 4 buckle Head, so, I hope he will comment. The Epic reviews of the new 3 buckle Nordica Firearrow are mixed. Harb is not a fan of either Dalbello or Technica, and he sure knows boots. Harbs thinking is that stiff boots keep you centered better as pushing boots forward is wasted energy.

I detect a growing movement from Dalbello back to 4 buckle, Philpug and Ron made the transition after years of major Dalbello love. Both don't look back.

At your size and growing skill level, I say go for a 130 4 buckle design. You need to go through the process of trying each for fit. I would be surprised if most who post here would disagree with the 130 4 buckle design recommendation. I would wait a year and see if Fisher gets their fitting/liner issues resolved on the new 130 shrink wrap boots.

 I don't think Booster straps will aide you existing boots, I have a pair not in use, so, if you want them, let me know.

krypton are a 98 mm shell that I have punched out to fit my foot which as you said is very wide.

I continue to use them because they are superior for skiing how I do, where I like to. there is not a single four buckle boot out there that lets you ankles flex  move as freely as this boot at this is important for how I ski. Mot people will hate them when they make the switch. If your use to a boot holding you up these even at their stiffest 140 flex setting are going to feel like hell because most people do not have strong enough lower legs to actually support themselves.  Even at 140 the flex since it has no stop point will feel soft to people use to plug boots or other 4 buckle boots.

Pros - The other great reason for this boot is the heel hold is accomplished though a buckle and not though a shell fit. for my wide foot it is impossible to find a boot that wide enough for the foot but low enough in the instep to hold my heel from moving. IN kryptons my heel does not move.

- easy to get on and off. No hair dryer needed.

- intution liners are stock. They keep my foot warm and fit better than anything else.

- lighter than most other alpine boots

- lateral they are pretty stiff

- because of 3 piece design with the buckle undone it is VERY easy to hike and skin in.

-extremely adjustable at home with cuff alignment, flex adjustment, and forward lean. Also has hard and soft boot bed. flex is really adjustable from 80-160.  I run mine stiffer than any stock configuration for GS and SL gates and about 130 for the 2 super G races I did this year.

Cons
 - will not give you power transmission of a plug boot, but I would argue for someone like myself who is nearly 100 percent off trail skier that power transmission is a performance inhibitor.

- for people with weak lower legs or balance skills this boot will suck untill they get use to it.

- the cuff flex travels inwards making it not as responsive to tipping as boots that harb likes, this is a IMO a valid concern but fixable. I moved the inside cuff hinge point on my forward and the outsides ones back letting my knees track outward instead of inward. Gave me alot better edge grip on harder snow.

I will never switch to a 4 buckle race boot till someone can hang with me for one day skiing one. I usually see alot of ugly skiing from people skiing 4 buckle boots which are optimized for groomers and not for off trail. The reason why so many people hate cabrio boots is because they are different and you are not going to like them in one day.

As for the nordica the volume is way to high for my foot but if you have a high volume foot its a decent boot if not as adjustable as the krypton. Lateral it is the stiffest boot I have ever skied on.

Tecnica suck except their plug boot. I used their 130 narrow lasted boot this year and the flex was fracked up on it. IT felt like it was 170 flex until you really pushed into it and then it basically folded in half. hard to maintain fore and aft balance when its opposite of what my kryptons are.


Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on April 11, 2012, 07:04:18 am
The post above by Bushwacka, in my opinion, is very well done.
And an excellent summary of  him picking a boot that fits well with his skiing. If this were facebook, I would give him a "like" or whatever they do over there.


disclaimer.  I don't have a faceboot account or a twitter account.  I am trying to keep as much of my life hidden from the Chinese as possible.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 11, 2012, 04:08:21 pm
Josh, thanks for a very complete and informative reply.  Kudos!

Am I correct in my interpretation of your post, that the Krypton is better suited to off-piste skiing? But then, you use it for racing too.  So there must be enough power to the edge and snow feel to do duty in the gates (?).  I spend about 2/3rds of my time on hard snow (east), and 1/3rd out west, so am really looking for a boot that has good edge power and snow feel for hard snow, but is still capable off-piste. 

As for lower leg strength and balance, I don't think that will be an issue, When I ski off-piste and in crud and bumps, I'm in a pretty neutral stance in my boots and don't drive my shins to hold me up or pressure the shovels -- more or less even pressure fore and aft in the cuffs.  And this with the forward lean in my Tecnicas being pushed ahead quite a bit using thick cuff shims.  I can ski all day like that, so shouldn't have any problem with a boot like the Krypton, which can't hold me upright.  OTOH, on-piste carving is different, and I pressure the shovels a fair amount.

Wither Tecnica? There sure isn't a lot of love here for that brand.  As I said, mine fit great, and I would keep them if they had more edge power and were a bit stiffer fore-aft.  FWIW, the flex pattern is very smooth and progressive, with a long range of motion, all of which I really like and helped sell me on this boot.

Josh, which Tecnica did you have? I'm guessing the Bodacious? Is that one based on the Inferno shell? Any comments on the Inferno 130 semi-plug boot (98mm version)?

Mike -- you mentioned that Phil moved from a Krypton to a 4-buckle boot.  The Tecnica Inferno 130 was the boot that he switched to (see his review on Epic).  Also, I wanted to ask you what the Nordica Doberman boots are like.  I know little about those, other than they have an excellent reputation as being a no-nonsense, high quality boot.  How would you describe their fit and flex pattern? Are you happy with their performance?

Quote
- the cuff flex travels inwards making it not as responsive to tipping as boots that harb likes, this is a IMO a valid concern but fixable. I moved the inside cuff hinge point on my forward and the outsides ones back letting my knees track outward instead of inward. Gave me alot better edge grip on harder snow.

This is an interesting comment.  Apparently Atomic is coming out with a new performance boot for 2013 (to replace their 98mm Burner series) that will have a cuff alignment mechanism that can move the hinge points forward or backward.  This is to tweak the inside/outside tracking of the knees when flexing.  Cool.  And innovative.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: LivingProof on April 14, 2012, 06:57:06 am
,
Mike -- you mentioned that Phil moved from a Krypton to a 4-buckle boot.  The Tecnica Inferno 130 was the boot that he switched to (see his review on Epic).  Also, I wanted to ask you what the Nordica Doberman boots are like.  I know little about those, other than they have an excellent reputation as being a no-nonsense, high quality boot.  How would you describe their fit and flex pattern? Are you happy with their performance?

[/quote]

Svend,
You are correct that Phil did make the transition to Technica and gives them high marks. I believe a prime reason that he left Dalbello is that his shop does not carry that that boot. He wants to be on a boot that he sells.

FWIW, a small primer into PMTS boot thinking. HH writes that the proper place for the leg to be, in all phases of the turn, is between the rear of the boot and the front of the boot. The shin should lightly touch the front of the boot. Said another way, "Don't Push Plastic". The benefit of a stiff boot is that it helps to recover the centered leg position when balance is moved too far back or forward in skiing. The angles created by the ankle in the boot remain constant in his school of skiing. That why many PMTS skiers ski in 150 boots, like Helluva, John and Max. I'm not advocating you seek a 150.

So, my skiing thoughts are never to test the forward flexing of a boot, in the shop or on the hill. The temperature changes between the two are extreme and I don't see the value of flexing a warm boot. I want a boot rigid that compliments PMTS tipping concepts. If asked how my boots flex, the answer is "they don't". I drink the cool aide in my thinking.

I think the Dan Boisevert may ski in a Dobie 130 and I believe Max skied in that boot prior to moving on up. They are narrow last and low volume boots, with a lot of material available to be removed via grinding. I would consider that boot in the future, although they are ancient by todays boot life standard. Phil just did a review a new boot Nordica has for next year, called Back to Black, which seems to update the Dobie 130. If you find one in your travels, try it on! And if you find one in a 29, let me know!

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 14, 2012, 07:44:59 am
Good post Mike and you kind of point out an important distinction between current 3-piece boots and traditional 2-piece race-inspired boots.  My Head Raptors are ideal for what I refer to as "foot skiing" whereas the Flexon/Krypton promotes more "leg skiing".

We've discussed this before on the PMTS forum, but for the benefit of the Peak Skiers here's a quick version of my thoughts.  Narrow 2-piece race inspired boots fit the foot very closely and are quite responsive in transmitting foot movements to your skis.  Foot movements are the foundation of PMTS skiing.  Harald has pointed out in his videos and online that you should not need to tighten the top of a race flex boot tightly on your leg.  He keeps his top buckle fairly loose.  One of the reasons I LOVE my Raptors is that they have the double-power Booster strap as OEM.  I trimmed away the plastic at the top front of the cuff so that my Booster strap is only against the liner, thus the strap "connects" my lower leg to the rear spine of the boot (where 2-piece shells get their forward/rearward flex support).  The double-power Booster lets me keep the top buckle loose while providing a really nice progressive flex.  The progressive forward flex provided by this setup is as good (if not better) than a Flexon/Krypton with their separate plastic tongue.  There is no "hard stop" when flexing forward with my Raptor setup.  The Booster strap just gets progressively more taught until it no longer stretches any further.

I find that the Flexon/Krypton boots need to be tightened around the lower leg to maintain sufficient control of your skis.  When your boot is tightened around your lower leg your foot movements aren't nearly as efficient or effective in producing tipping power.  Thus these boots turn you into a "leg skier" where you're using the gross motor movements of your legs to achieve ski tipping.  I think the reason for this is the buckle placement on these boots.  Although the ankle buckle (or Dynalink in Krypton terms) seems like a good idea for pulling your foot back into the pocket, I've found that having 2 buckles (just above the ankle and over the instep) combined with a stronger lower shell provide much better holding power for my feet.  Now I have a low instep so it's quite possible that a different foot shape may not have quite the same issues in a Flexon/Krypton, but I'd be surprised if this isn't the same case for a lot of skiers.

My Raptors fit my feet so well that I can leave the buckles completely undone with just the Booster strap tightened and I can ski just fine.  In fact when I ski relaxed with my kids that is exactly how I keep my boots.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 14, 2012, 08:57:28 am
H-A, Mike,

This is interesting stuff.  I can see the logic of a stiff boot limiting your fore and aft movement on hard groomed snow, but how does that translate to 3D snow - crud, bumps, powder? Would not the ability to have some fore-aft movement in your boots be a benefit? Allow you more ability to maintain balance by adjusting stance? I'm just trying to think through how I ski that stuff, and while I definitely see the need for a stiffer boot (being the original reason for starting this thread) to help power through the deep crud, I don't think I would want to go too far with this and be totally "locked in" and rigid.

Mike, I think you were right on in your first reply -- a good 130 flex would be the ticket.  Well chosen, and given my height and weight, a 130 flex boot would give me enough fore-aft range to recenter and balance in rough snow, yet give me more of the power and assertiveness that I'm looking for.

And no worries, I don't take the flex stiffness in the shop to mean anything.  But I do flex the boots to see what range of motion I might have, how progressive the resistance feels as I move forward, what happens to the lower cuff and shell when I flex, as well as if the fit changes from the deformation.  As for stiffness, on a cold day, even my 110's are plenty stiff.

H-A, thanks for insight into the Booster strap and comparison to the Krypton design.  That's really good to know that I can get that nice smooth forward flex and range of motion that feels so compelling in the Krypton, but still get the power of a solid 2-piece narrow lasted shell.  I like it! Considering that I spend so much time on hard eastern snow, but still ski western mountains a significant amount, this will be a good combination. 

FWIW, my Inferno's are designed to have the power strap sit half-on and half-off the upper cuff and tongue, if you can picture what I mean.  The forward flex is nice and smooth, but it would be easy to slip the strap fully under the cuff so all of it snugs on the tongue -- I'll try it next week to see how it feels.  On my wife's Lange RS110's, I actually cut the upper piece of cuff off so that the strap sits full on the tongue.  Lange was smart enough to mold a scribe mark into the cuff for just that purpose.  She loves it.

Quote
I think the Dan Boisevert may ski in a Dobie 130 and I believe Max skied in that boot prior to moving on up. They are narrow last and low volume boots, with a lot of material available to be removed via grinding. I would consider that boot in the future, although they are ancient by todays boot life standard. Phil just did a review a new boot Nordica has for next year, called Back to Black, which seems to update the Dobie 130. If you find one in your travels, try it on! And if you find one in a 29, let me know!

Size 29, eh? That will cost you extra freight for me to ship boots that big  ;D

Seriously, I'll keep an eye out for them.  From Phil's review, it sounds like they might be a perfect fit for me too, as he is in the stiffer version of my boot (Inferno shell), and the Nordie's fit him even better.  And I love the boss colours.  8)  Maybe my kids will respect and fear me more if I wear those.  Ha!

Guys, thanks for all the great feedback.  You've upped my level of knowledge about boot design and fitting a great deal, and helped me focus in on a set of criteria that will be important for a good match.

It will be fun to kick around some shops in the coming weeks trying boots.  I've got a mental short list of ones that I think might work, based on past trials, and I want to try some others again that didn't fit so well a few years ago to see if they've changed.  Will keep you posted.

Cheers,
Svend
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 15, 2012, 02:27:52 pm
So I ran a little experiment this morning on a bit of a powder day in CO.  I grabbed my old ZipFit Plug Leather liner to use with a Flexon/Full Tilt shell.  The idea was to use a liner that could provide a tighter fit (especially over the instep since it is a tongued liner) and more power and see if there's any way to effectively "resurrect" my use of a Flexon shell depending on conditions or logistics of a ski trip.

The ZipFit definitely makes the Flexon feel much more "substantial", but even with the #10 tongue installed (the stiffest flex available) I could easily over power the boot.  It just doesn't provide the support of my Raptors. 

Another key observation was that even though the ZipFit holds my foot much more closely, I could still feel the bones of my foot and ankle moving around more.  Because the Flexon does not have an anatomical shape in the lower shell, the plastic doesn't really help hold your foot and ankle in place.  This is why I think that anyone considering the Krypton should really wait for the KR2.  The inside of the KR2 looks very much like the inside of the Dalbello Scorpion racing boots. 

I ski in ZipFits in my Raptor 130RS and B3 RD shells.  It's a great match and I like that the ZipFits allow me to get into smaller shell sizes without requiring any shell work.

Although stock liners have definitely improved in recent years, keep in mind that the liner generally doesn't get a lot of R&D and the quality of the materials can be quite lacking.  The foam used in stock liners will pack out - sometimes relatively quickly and then you're left with possibly needing additional boot work to resolve a fit problem.  ZipFit liners don't pack out, ever.  They break-in a little, but you never will lose the fit you get from day 1 until their last day when they fall apart (which could be some 700 ski days later).  ZipFits look to be really expensive until you consider what the investment means for your skiing and how long they will provide their top notch performance.  I heard from Chris B. that Harald is actually back in a ZipFit in his Dodge Boots (he was previously foamed). 

The main take away here is don't trust in your liner to provide your boot fit.  For higher performance skiers you really need the shell to fit your foot, ankle, and lower leg as closely as possible while still being comfortable for all day skiing.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on April 15, 2012, 04:30:14 pm
I got Zipfit for my Raptors (but mine are not the130 flex) and really like them.
And I've found that keeping the liner on while putting on or taking off boots has become my standard. Very easy (with some silicone spray). The other advantage is being able to reuse the liners in new boots.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 15, 2012, 08:51:50 pm
H-A, you mean you tested the Full Tilt's just for me? Or to satisfy your own curiosity? Either way, that is simply brilliant.  Stellar service to a fellow Peak Skier, sir! Thank you very much.

The outcome of your trial is really interesting, esp. that you were able to overpower the stiffest tongue on that boot.  I don't know your specs, but I am 6'2" and 220 lbs in my boxers, so that boot will likely not cut it for me either.  Not sure how that translates to the stiffness of the Krypton Pro with the stiffest tongue and spine widgets in place, but if I find a pair to try, I'll certainly see if they are substantial enough for me.

I'm really looking forward to starting the boot search.  Should be a lot of fun.  And I want to take my time and get it right this time.  I've had three pairs of boots in 6 years, two of which were in the past 3 years.  I want the next pair to last me at least 4 to 5 years, so no rush to buy.  I regret being too hasty in my last boot purchase.  Only tried a couple of pairs, fell in love with the fit of the Tecnicas and bought 'em.  Should have gone for a stiffer pair, and grown into them. 

I checked out the Zipfit site -- looks like a great product.   And I share a first name with the founder -- not a common moniker on this continent.  Cool!  8)

I knew nothing about Zipfit until now.  Not cheap, but seem to be well worth it.  Definitely a must-do when a liner packs out.  Although my Tecnica liners still feel like new after about 40 days in them, I may not have the same luck with my next boots.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on April 15, 2012, 09:49:51 pm
Svend:


OK, maybe you're feeling guilty about too many boots?
So let me ask a leading question. Would any boot you would have selected 5 years ago, no matter how carefully, still be the right boot for you now, given the changes in your skiing in the past 5 years.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 16, 2012, 06:27:40 am
whats not making sense here is earlier in the thread people were saying that your lower leg should be positioned behind the front of the boots and in front of the back boot. If that is true how do you over power any boot?

Also ankle flex is important to be able to stay centered while flexed, being able to jump, being able to absorb and most people who do not like the feeling do not have strong enough lower legs. Kryptons will takes dozen of days to you start to be able to exploit and probably love the new found movement.

lastly zipfits are a cold heavy liner.  not well suited to what I do at all.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 16, 2012, 07:26:13 am
Jim, not feeling guilty, just annoyed with myself for making poorly-informed and too-hasty choices for my last two boots.  Those should have been keepers, but ended up (or soon to end up) being ditched after only a season or two.  The Lange Comp Pro had irreconcilable alignment problems that would have cost too much for a bootfitter's fix to make it worthwhile -- better to buy a new pair.  And the Tecnicas, well I told the story already -- too soft.

Josh, what you say makes perfect sense.  I have not ruled out the Krypton by any means, and I am still intrigued by my last try-on of those a couple of years ago -- the lack of pressure points, all-enveloping fit, smooth flex.  Very nice.  I need to try the shell again, as they have made some changes to the fit as of last year (C4 concept, whatever that means) and I don't know if they will still work for me.  That, and I really need to self-assess my skiing style and needs to see if a boot of that type would suit where and how I ski.  For your skiing, I could definitely see those as being an excellent match.  Your insight into these boots has been very helpful and informative, and will be a great aid in making my final choice.

Cheers,
Svend
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 16, 2012, 10:18:07 am
I have yet to see it in person on rhe EC and the only person I have ever seen is Reilly and its not to say that his off piste skiing would improve with out the stiff race boot.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on April 16, 2012, 12:28:34 pm



It's rather interesting that, ever since Svend started the threads on boots, I get mostly ski boot ads on the Google AdSense section at the top.  I guess, as the youngsters would say, that on this forum ski boots are trending.


Hmmm, I don't remember what the ads were when the topic was Bushwacka.   8)
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 16, 2012, 09:48:52 pm
The outcome of your trial is really interesting, esp. that you were able to overpower the stiffest tongue on that boot.  I don't know your specs, but I am 6'2" and 220 lbs in my boxers, so that boot will likely not cut it for me either.  Not sure how that translates to the stiffness of the Krypton Pro with the stiffest tongue and spine widgets in place, but if I find a pair to try, I'll certainly see if they are substantial enough for me.

IIRC, The Krypton can be setup much stiffer than the Flexon/Full Tilt even with the #10 tongue.  The secret with the Krypton is the rear spine wedge.  The stiffest tongue combined with the rear spine wedge in the stiffest position should be a fairly stiff forward flexing boot (maybe equal to a typical 120-130 flex 2-piece).  However, I think there's more to it than just having a stiff forward flex.  If there wasn't more to it you wouldn't hear about how there are real skiing differences between similarly stiff flexing boots.

When I said I was able to easily overpower the Flexon with the ZipFit I was specifically referring to how the extra support from the ZipFit (plastic collar and tongue) allowed me to completely collapse the boots' forward flex to the point of my knees practically getting down to my skis.  With an Intuition liner you just don't have that much support, so you don't get that much leverage over the front of the boot.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 16, 2012, 09:53:59 pm
lastly zipfits are a cold heavy liner.  not well suited to what I do at all.

ZipFits are definitely heavier than Intuition (or Dalbello I.D.) liners, but they're not heavier than typical stock liners and they're sometimes lighter.

ZipFit added a shearling wool toe box lining that really helps with the toe warmth.  I go along with the theory that boot warmth is mostly a function of fit that doesn't block circulation.  If you have a boot that fits you well you should have less issues with getting cold feet.  Of course on some really cold days you'll still need enough insulation and on those days I use boot gloves.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 16, 2012, 10:00:50 pm
And yet plenty of expert skiers rip all over the mountain, including absorbing huge moguls, wearing stiff race boots.

Patrick Deneen, olympic mogul skier, uses World Cup stiff Lange boots.  He's known as a mogul turns specialist and regularly wins the speed portion of mogul duels.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 17, 2012, 05:38:37 am
You do not think him skiing in a lange has anything to do with him being sponsored by dynstar/lange? Most pros do not ski on what they want, they ski on what people will pay them to ski on.

and also again Pro mogul skiing is flat out skiing for less than a minute at time. I am sure stiffer boot could be better for that, but when it comes to skiing woods/bumps for 8 hours a day that it would tend to be a preformance inhibitor.

but really the real reason why someone who is a pro skis on something is due to money.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 17, 2012, 05:52:52 am
and just go done with PM chat with a kearney who won the olympic gold medalist in 2010.

She said if money was no object she would be in Kryptons/full tils over her tecnicas hey just do not pay enough. I do not know how to contact Patrick since I have never me him but I bet that his answer would be the same. If osmeone wants to the ground work on that one....


Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: dan.boisvert on April 18, 2012, 05:51:14 am
A lot of the freestyle kids who are in the same program Hannah came out of are now getting two sets of boots.  They get a modified plug boot for the mogul stuff with a purpose-specific lateral alignment and then a separate boot for the slopestyle.  My understanding is that the full tilt and such is very popular for the slopestyle end of things, but doesn't work as well for the bumps themselves.  I'd imagine one modified like Josh's would be better in the bumps than the stock model, though.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: dan.boisvert on April 18, 2012, 06:15:23 pm
I think the Dan Boisevert may ski in a Dobie 130 and I believe Max skied in that boot prior to moving on up.

Whoops--I missed this earlier.  I'm currently in the Raptor 130 RD, but have been looking at the Dobie 150 (amongst others) for an impending upgrade.  My 130's do okay when it's really cold and I buckle them to just shy of tourniquet tightness, but any warmer or looser than that, and there's more of a delay than I'd like in their response, mostly in the fore-aft.  I like to be able to bend the ski right away when I pull my feet back, and having to push through the squish of the boot before the ski bends has become my latest pet peeve.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 18, 2012, 08:35:13 pm
Dan, that is one of the first things that Gary commented on when he switched from the Raptor to Lange RX last season.  He said that the Langes had much more snow feel, direct connection to the ski, and were more responsive.  Maybe he can pipe in here and elaborate more.


IIRC, The Krypton can be setup much stiffer than the Flexon/Full Tilt even with the #10 tongue.  The secret with the Krypton is the rear spine wedge.  The stiffest tongue combined with the rear spine wedge in the stiffest position should be a fairly stiff forward flexing boot (maybe equal to a typical 120-130 flex 2-piece).  However, I think there's more to it than just having a stiff forward flex.  If there wasn't more to it you wouldn't hear about how there are real skiing differences between similarly stiff flexing boots.

I think you're right.  These boots have some very devoted fans, and there must be something unique in their feel and performance.  As for stiffness, Josh said he has his cranked up to the equivalent of 160 flex(?), presumably using the spine widgets.  I'm wondering if making the spine stiffer would improve the rebound of the boot, the same way the spine works in a 2-piece shell.  I should be able to find a Krypton this week and try it side-by-side with a good 130 2-piece boot.  Lou's shop (boot guy on Epic) is here in Calgary and he carries the Krypton line.  Time for a visit.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 19, 2012, 07:18:48 am
yeah 2 wedges in the back make the boots pretty much solid as a rock. I tend to run for normal skiing at about 140 though.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 19, 2012, 02:11:56 pm
Josh, do the wedges improve the rebound of the boots -- ie. help recenter and provide support -- or does that all come from the tongues in the Krypton?
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 20, 2012, 06:52:11 am
Svend the boot basically does not move with 2 wedges in the back....so there really is no rebound.

From Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing by Dan DiPiro

Page 79

A good bump-skiing boot is just a little less stiff than most top-of-the-line racing boots.
...
I don't recommend boots that are more flexible or soft than second-tier racing boots. Skiing too soft a boot in the moguls is like driving a car with a cushy, soft supsension - say, a big, old Cadillac - through a tight autocross course: you just won't get the responsiveness you need.

 :D

Max you should know that before I skied I was a quite successful Auto-X,time trailer, and road racer. You must know that right?

The thing is with Auto-X the cars are actually set up softer than a road race car.  I had nearly identical 1990 honda Civics one setup for Auto-x and one set up for NASA Honda Challenge road racing and the suspensions setting that I got after many many days of testing were this.

Auto X -                   

550 front spring rates
500 rear spring rate

11 mm front sway bar
24 mm rear sway bar.

5 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber

.5 toe out in the front
2.0 toe out in the rear

Road Racing

500 front spring rate
800 rear spring rate

20mm front sway bar
30mm rear sway bar

3 degree front camber
1 degree rear camber

0 degree front toe
-1.0 rear toe

both set up were counter balanced and played a crucial roll in making my 1990 Street Modified Civic the faster FWD car at nationals 2 years in a row. Including at least a dozen FTDs(fastest times of the day) at regional and local events something that most people never do.

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188490_4401758356_505253356_6323_744_n.jpg)


and for rally-X racing the car would have stock intgegra spring on it


the point is you use different suspension and tires for different things in autoracing, why would you do the same in skiing?
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 20, 2012, 06:59:40 am
From Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing by Dan DiPiro

Page 79

A good bump-skiing boot is just a little less stiff than most top-of-the-line racing boots.
...
I don't recommend boots that are more flexible or soft than second-tier racing boots. Skiing too soft a boot in the moguls is like driving a car with a cushy, soft supsension - say, a big, old Cadillac - through a tight autocross course: you just won't get the responsiveness you need.

Nice quote grab.  I have that book and totally forgot this was in there.

I have to admit, skiing my Raptors off-piste and in moguls is taking some time to adjust to.  It's not the boot's fault, it's mine.  It's about adjusting/improving my skills so that I'm bringing the same good movements everywhere on the mountain, not just on the groomers.  I've skied with GaryH at LL quite a few times and he's in 150 Dobies.  He has no problem skiing the whole mountain in those boots.  Of course you also have Geoffda, JBotti, Max, HH, Diana, etc. all skiing at the highest level with the same stiff boots all over the mountain.

I'm not quite sure why I stuck to the idea of using different boots for different skiing for so long.  I actually think the "gear ****" in me was affecting my judgement.  Of course that doesn't mean I won't keep looking for boots that provide the performance and fit of my Raptors, but are easier to get into and out of.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on April 20, 2012, 08:09:57 am
Quote from: bushwacka
Auto X -                   

550 front spring rates  - 11 mm sway bar  - 5 degree camber
500 rear spring rate     - 24 mm sway bar  - 2 degree camber

Road Racing

500 front spring rate  - 20 mm sway bar - 3 degree camber
800 rear spring rate   - 30 mm sway bar - 1 degree camber

I don't know that either comparison of skiing versus driving a cushy cadillac in auto cross is a valid comparison.
But I am surprised at the rear suspension stiffness.  550 spring with 11 mm sway versus 500 spring and stiffer sway bar is a subtle difference.  But much stiffer rear springs AND larger sway bar would really stiffen the rear end.


I assume you were wanting the car to rotate quicker (almost oversteer) in auto cross. The more agressive camber I can understand.




The point is you are comparing National's level racing to recreational skiing.  Nationals level racers probably put just as much time and energy into boot selection and testing as you did your cars. You don't get fast without it. But I think someone said Nationals level mogul racers also user very stiff boots?
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on April 20, 2012, 08:48:34 am
Eh I was trying to point out how for national level racing people would not use the same thing as a rec skier skiing though woods and bumps.

You also missed the toes setting which were alot more rotation happy on the autocross car..... also you camber should go down as body roll goes down, if does not you would be 'over" cambered. IE the tire would be leaned into the turn but would never actually become flat.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 21, 2012, 06:06:27 am
The Hot Gear bag solved my problem for getting into the boots. Getting them off is another story...still no good solution for that. The Dodge may be easier to get off. I noticed that John and Harald were out of their Dodge's before I had managed to wrestle one of my Dobberman's off.

Hot Gear bag - check.  Picked one up last season and it sure does keep the boots toasty.

I spoke with the Dodge boys at the end of last season and they have big plans for the next generation of the Dodge boot - it will be a redesign of the shell with some critical changes to the shape of the last.  That's the boot I'm waiting for.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on April 22, 2012, 04:59:38 pm
Last season they said 2-3 seasons.  Since they were already producing for 2012 when they said that I would estimate that we will see something new in either the 2013-14 or 2014-15 season.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on October 11, 2012, 08:05:24 am
Anyone have any experience with the new KR2 models??  They are using the Scorpion design for the lower shell now, We are getting some in the shop, but I haven't seen them yet or heard of anyone skiing on a pair.

I think dalbello changed the position of the hinge points, making the outer lower than the inner (which, was a problem on the previous Kryptons for those who did not want a 'rotary' boot).  But I haven't seen one in person to confirm this.

With the proposed tweaks in design, this could be a new life for the venerable Krypto model.  I am very interested in putting my foot into this boot.

Liam

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on October 11, 2012, 08:38:38 am
Liam,  I have no experience with these, but plan to have a close look and a shop try-on soon.  I have been reading the ski mag gear reviews on these with interest (although they all seem to be from the same source -- Mark Elling, Mt. Bachelor?).  In any case, the reviews have been very positive, and are saying that some of the main shortcomings in the previous model have been sorted out, and that these boots now have far more versatility than before.  Sp. greatly improved on-piste performance, better lower boot fit, less fiddly adjustment widgets.  Not sure about the hinge points, though.

My boot testing this past spring was, I admit, somewhat discouraging, and I still have not found a good replacement for my Infernos.  The KR Two in their new iteration are high on the list for a retry.  The previous version were an awkward fit; hopefully the new one is better.

Let me know if you try them, and how they work out for you.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on October 11, 2012, 10:15:00 am
I wonder if they have made buckles that actually last yet....

My only complaint about the 1st gen is that. For where I want to ski best thing I had found so far and noone on race boots has ever out one it.

The new on does look promising.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on October 11, 2012, 10:25:53 am
I hadn't heard the buckle problem before.  I'll keep that in mind.

Is it just the progressive flex that you like for off-piste or is there more to this design (and have you tried other cabrio designs)??  I've never skied on the any before, the old krypton felt awful on my feet, but I had good luck with the scorpion, so I have high hopes here. 


I've also toyed with the idea of using the Dalbello Sherpa (virus) as my main boot and setting up all my skis with 'slack country' (dukes or guardian) bindings.  I end up boot hiking everywhere I go, and from patrol I spend a lot of time walking up the hill and through the woods so these new Dalbello designs are, at least on paper, appealing/
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on October 21, 2012, 07:49:42 pm
Got a chance to try these on in the shop-the new KR2 Fusions (with grippier soles, and a 120flex)-I also, tried on (sometimes alternating feet) the Dalbello Scorpion SF 110 (the other boot in the running).

Though they have changed the boot fit for the Krypton, the Scorpion felt, still, a lot more comfortable, and yes, more stiff forward flexing even in the 110flex.

But, the KR2s were vasty improved over the old model, and not at all cramped. 

They look better than the old Kryptons..I am still leery of this style of boot, but we'll see, I might pull the trigger on them.





Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on October 22, 2012, 08:18:14 am
I am still leery of this style of boot, but we'll see, I might pull the trigger on them.

....and from patrol I spend a lot of time walking up the hill and through the woods so these new Dalbello designs are, at least on paper, appealing

Considering that you do a lot of this kind of hiking, don't you think that the advantages of a Krypton boot would outweigh some of the drawbacks?  Smooth, long and progressive flex; no shell deformation on flexing....that kind of thing.  And perhaps those few drawbacks could be easily fixed -- comfort (good bootfitter); stiffer flex (stiffer tongue and/or spine widgets) -- so that the Krypton is just a better boot for you all around.   Just think, you could have happy feet, just like Josh  ;D

BTW, I have put my own search for boots on the back burner.  My try-ons in the spring were discouraging, but also made my present Infernos look pretty good.  Several of the 98mm / 130 flex models were significantly softer (at least in the shop) than my Inferno 110's.  Nordica Girish and Tecnica Bodacious, specifically.  The latter had a shell that just crumpled on flexing, and offered what seemed to be almost no support.  I think BW commented on this before.  The others that I tried were either about the same flex as my Infernos, or if stiffer, were a poor fit match.  I did not find a Krypton, but want to try the new Pro model some time this winter.  In the meantime, I had the inside ankle bone area punched out on my boots, which should make my feet sit better in the shell (better edging, I hope).  And I have ordered some triple-ply Booster straps to try out and see what they will do to the Inferno's flex and stiffness.  Basically trying to make the best of what I've got, which turns out to be a pretty decent boot after all.  Should be an interesting start to the season, to see if the tweaks work....

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on October 23, 2012, 04:41:11 am
Honestly, this is a great time to find good skiing boots that should work very well for a patroller that has to hike a lot.  There are a lot more "side country" boot options available now than ever.  Though please keep in mind my first post in this thread - it's still always about the fit of the shell first.  I was seriously considering pulling the trigger on the KR2, but when I really put it through the fit test side-by-side with other "hike worthy" boots, I found that my low instep wasn't getting what I needed from the KR2.  Although the ankle and heel pocket are vastly improved, the instep, forefoot, and toebox were not a great match for my foot. 

And I'll say it again, don't let a liner fool you into thinking a boot fits.  Pull the liner out, tell the sales guy to go away for 5 minutes and really check out just how well the plastic is meshing with your foot shape.  Move your foot around inside the shell and think about how much space the liner is going to have to fill up.  When you back your heel into the pocket does it match up?  Keep in mind that you need to leave room for a footbed and a bit of liner under your foot so raise it up about 5mm or so (it's best to actually stick your footbed in the shell without the liner to check the shell match to your foot).  Do your ankles line up with where the shell thinks your ankles should be?  What about the toe box?  The toe box can easily be blown out or have some plastic ground away, but it's great if the toe box already matches up well for your feet (I love that Raptors don't have pointy toe boxes, they're quite "generous" up front).

I think the KR2 is going to match up well for skiers with a fairly narrow heel/ankle, higher instep, and a more narrow forefoot/toe area.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on October 23, 2012, 07:47:55 am
if the boot is tight around your foot you can always make in wider.....

I would rather side on the too small of things and then take it to a boot fitter.

Just curious Liam when you were flexing the Krypton was it set up at 120 flex? IE stiffer tongue and shim in the right place....
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on October 23, 2012, 10:03:23 am
Bush,

I'm embarrassed to admit that I don't know what Flex they were set to..they were fresh out of the box, the shop was excited to get a few sizes in for people to try.  I'll stop in again.

Hey Josh, earlier you wrote about changing the hinge location on the inside (medial) side of the boot (moving it forward I believe, to prevent your knees from tracking in whEn carving)..how do you do that?  Or did I miss read your modification of your Kryptons.

Liam
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on November 02, 2012, 06:52:48 am
Bush,

It was at the lower flex point.   It was a tough call-I also had on a pair of Vipers (not the stiffer ones) and loved the shell fit (no surprise as they are 100mm boots)-but I would think the upper end model of these with the ID liner would be an excellent slightly wider traditional boot for many.

I just took the plunge and purchased these boots...I am considering (if it is possible) getting the stiffest KR2 Pro tongue for them them.

I'll give them a fair run for one season and see how they handle (the forward flex is very different-though, my knees tracked straight in varying 'in-shop' flex tests...we'll see).

Bush, I am still very interested in hearing how you changed hinge positions (making the Krypton more responsive to lateral inputs) on your boots.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on November 02, 2012, 08:07:10 am
I just took the plunge and purchased these boots...I am considering (if it is possible) getting the stiffest KR2 Pro tongue for them them.

Liam, as far as I know, the tongues are interchangeable between models.  You should have no problem getting a stiffer tongue like the Pro model has.  But have you played with the spine stiffening widgets yet? Bush mentioned in an earlier post that they really work.  Maybe a new tongue is not needed?

Congrats on the new boots! Looking forward to hearing how you like them.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: bushwacka on November 02, 2012, 03:23:37 pm
si what boot did you get?

if you got the vipers the tongues are not interchangeable....

I do not know why you would get the Kr2s and just have the shell stretched......

I do not have the modded pair with me...

basically I modded the cuff at hinge point and shimmed it forward. I just took and cuff and cut out the whole so it went further forward on the inside . ... not sure which why I liked it better at this point in time.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on November 02, 2012, 08:59:47 pm
Bush,

I got the the KR2 Krypton Fusions w/ Intuition liners.  I'll ski them as is for a bit and then make modifications as warranted.

I am excited to get a feel for what ankle mobility adds to off piste/ mogul skiing.

Svend,

we'll see about the tongues, too-I'll ski the stock one for  awhile...

Nor'easter possible the middle of next week...killington open yet??

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: ToddW on November 03, 2012, 02:13:28 pm
Kmart opens Monday Nov. 5
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: HighAngles on November 06, 2012, 05:24:53 am
Liam - just make sure you bring the rear inserts along with you when you go out for your new boots maiden voyage.  That way you'll be able to adjust the forward flex almost on the fly.  Did the shop mold the Intuitions for you?

I think the Fusion is an incredible bang-for-the-buck deal.  It's pretty much identical to the top of the line KR2 for a lot less money and you can always swap the tongue out later if necessary.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on November 08, 2012, 05:43:13 pm
I think the Fusion is an incredible bang-for-the-buck deal.  It's pretty much identical to the top of the line KR2 for a lot less money and you can always swap the tongue out later if necessary.

Is the Fusion the same boot as the previous Krypton Cross model? Seems to be...  If so, I very nearly bought that boot a couple of years ago.  Tried them on, loved the fit and flex feel, then went to buy them a couple of weeks later and there were none to be found in the whole country.  Dalbello was going through a distributor change in Canada at that time, and supply on all their boots was short.  Too bad, as I really wanted those.  Like H-A said, they were nearly the same as the Pro but for much less money.  Better looking too, IMO....

If the mods to my Infernos still aren't enough to give me the guts that I need, the Fusion or Pro are on high on my short list as a replacement. 

Looking forward to your review, Liam.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on November 08, 2012, 06:12:24 pm
HA,  do the rear insert make the flex feel stiffer?  I thought they mostly pushed you forward a bit.  I'll be molding them at the shop next week sometime.

Svend, Yeah, the lack of the vibram screw on soles on the Pro were a deal killer, I put a lot of walking miles on my boots so I really don't do the solid plastic bottom thing anymore.  I'm eager to review them as well....probably not until early December....though I might sneak up to K-Ton before then...


This year's Krypton line looks (cosmetically) a whole lot better than in previous years.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on November 09, 2012, 06:46:50 am
Just wondering -- does anyone here have a "boot quiver"? We all have multiple pairs of skis.  Heck, some even consider 10 pairs to be the new normal (can't remember who that was; H-A or Heluva, I think).  But, and correct me if I'm wrong, we all seem to have only one pair of boots.  Bush might be the exception -- he probably has a 2nd pair of AT boots, but that doesn't count as they are special purpose.  In any case, I've never heard anyone here saying "I think I'll ski in my Raptors tomorrow, and leave the Kryptons at home".   

Curious thing that.  We have different skis that suit different needs -- carvers, all mtn., powder, etc..  But we only have a single pair of boots to take us into all that varied terrain.  Seems to me that some boot designs -- sp. the 3-piece Krypton discussed here -- may have some advantages over 2-piece in certain terrain (bumps, off-piste, crud), whereas a solid narrow last 2-piece just can't be beat for hard snow carving.  So, if this is true, then why don't some of us have at least a 2-boot quiver? After all, the cost of a pair of boots is about the same as a pair of skis, and a few of us here don't even blink at buying new skis every season or two. 

I'm interested to find out why this might be...

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: midwif on November 09, 2012, 12:43:07 pm
Breaking the suckers in. :'(

Very few people on this board get boots they can wear out of the shop and just ski in without modifications.
Most of us buy pretty true to actual foot size boots, which require modifications, liners etc.


But you knew that Svend! :D
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: jim-ratliff on November 09, 2012, 12:52:35 pm
Lugging around two pair or skis (more if you are young and vigorous) is heavy enough.  Far be it from me to want to also lug 2 pair of boots through the airport.
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on November 09, 2012, 01:11:11 pm
Lugging around two pair or skis (more if you are young and vigorous) is heavy enough.  Far be it from me to want to also lug 2 pair of boots through the airport.

Fair enough, and I wouldn't want to lug 2 pairs either.  But many of us ski at local hills weekly or more (I know that we do) where the airport is not a factor.

Breaking the suckers in. :'(

Very few people on this board get boots they can wear out of the shop and just ski in without modifications.
Most of us buy pretty true to actual foot size boots, which require modifications, liners etc.


But you knew that Svend! :D

Lynn -- of course I knew that, but with a bit of boot work to make em fit, why not take the time for a second pair? Besides, the boot work is free with purchase (at least here in Toronto area stores it is).  No reason, other than a few hours in the shop, not to do it.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on November 09, 2012, 07:37:31 pm
It's easy to buy a lot of skis because it is relatively easy to unload used skis.....but it hard to unload used boots-so I get a pair, and make 'em work until they are kaput (and become 25 dollar ski swap items).

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on December 29, 2012, 10:02:17 am
Quick update re. my search for boots:  I have decided to hold off on getting a new pair for now, pending my final assessment of mods I made to my present Infernos.  I replaced the power strap with a heavy duty ;) 3-ply Booster; got new liners under warranty from Tecnica Canada (resolving an issue with a tear in the old ones - great service from those folks); and had the inside ankle areas punched out to relieve a hot spot and align my feet better in the shells.  I skied them for 4 days in Banff just before Christmas and really liked what I felt.  The new liners seem to be the same as in the current Inferno race boots, and I like the quality and fit and feel.  A significant improvement over the old ones. 

The Boosters, in particular, made the biggest difference.  They make the boots markedly stiffer feeling, seem to act like shock absorbers in crud and chop, and give me a much more solid feel in steep terrain which is confidence-inspiring.  A great upgrade, and well worth the time to drill out the power strap rivets and bolt on the Boosters.

All-in-all, I am happy with the outcome so far.  During the time in Banff we skied some steep terrain and quite a bit of off-piste stuff, crud and ungroomed, and I never felt like I overpowered the boots or was wanting for more support.  FYI, I was skiing my Mythics, which are a rather solid heavy ski, and the boots had no trouble driving them.  Now I'm looking forward to getting out on my Progressor 9's and see how they perform on groomers. 

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: byronm on December 30, 2012, 06:53:16 am
Cool boots Svend....I notice they employ a three buckle system...Is there a noticable difference in performance with a three buckle system, or better performance with one less buckle to fiddle with?
Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on December 30, 2012, 08:24:22 am
Hey Byron -- to clarify, I don't own the Kryptons.  But I did seriously consider them as a replacement for my present Tecnica Infernos, hence my inquiry at the beginning of this thread.  I may still go that way if the mods to my Infernos aren't satisfactory. 

The Krypton is a really interesting boot, with many devoted fans out there.  The new versions for 2013 are much improved, apparently.  This might be a great choice for you, actually, if your Impacts don't work out.  Narrow last, narrow heel pocket, flex adjustment down to 80 or 90, and lots of forward lean adjustability. Liam just bought a pair and has promised a review.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 17, 2013, 07:26:06 pm
I got the the KR2 Krypton Fusions w/ Intuition liners.  I'll ski them as is for a bit and then make modifications as warranted.

I am excited to get a feel for what ankle mobility adds to off piste/ mogul skiing.

Svend,

we'll see about the tongues, too-I'll ski the stock one for  awhile...


Hey Liam, curious to know how the Kryptons worked out for you this year? Good performance? Any major pros or cons over two-piece boots that are noteworthy?

Interested to hear your feedback...

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Liam on April 22, 2013, 10:08:39 am
Hey Svend,

Yeah, I'm sold on this boot.   It did require some adjustments (fairly similar to stuff Josh said), You can't 'hang' on the front of the boot and expect it to hold you up, you definitely, at first, find your calve/ ankle/ shin balancing muscles and joints feeling a little more taxed from supporting your throughout a turn, but as they get stronger and your balance improves, this goes away and the boot feels great.  Some thoughts:

1. Is it 'softer' well the flex is rated to a 120 as I have it set up but there is definitely a more dynamic amount of flex than the Dalbello Scorpion 110 a spent some time in, though the foot fit is very similar.  For me the flex is great, and you can easily (as in a 1 minute switch) pop in another stiffer tongue (they make two that are progressively stiffer) if the stock tongue isn't enough.   But I find with all the rear plugs in, and the wrap around intuition liner, the boot is plenty stiff for my skiing. 

2.  The big difference is how it flexes and where:  The pivot is much lower on these boots and so more ankle flex and absorption is possible than in a standard 4 buckle.  It is different--better or worse is up to the user, but it is different-I like it, especially in chunky or challenging snow conditions.

3. Downsides:  Biggest one is more of a nettlesome attribute:  The Middle Buckle is the who key to the design....it is a real **** to lever it down, the cam spring has a lot of resistance and you can't easily close the buckle on the lift or just reaching down, it take real effort to clamp it down at the useful level of tension.  A bit of a bother.

4.  Easy as hell to put on or take of and real easy to remove or insert the liners (I take them out now after every ski day).

I like it--especially for someone who has to hike and work in his boots, they're money.    I could see why a hard core racer type might not want them however, but that ain't me.

Title: Re: Krypton Pro boots
Post by: Svend on April 29, 2013, 06:05:51 pm
Hi Liam,

Sorry for the late reply.  I've been...well...skiin g actually.  In Banff, last week.  Brilliant conditions.  Combined it with some business in Calgary, and added a few days on the slopes with my wife, who flew out when the work was done.  But, sadly, our season is now done.  Time to get the bikes tuned up.

As for the Kryptons, thanks for the great feedback.  It happens that I tried the Fusion in a Calgary shop last week, and found it to be a near perfect fit.  Snug almost everywhere -- forefoot, instep, shin, calf, ankle.  A really good fit all around, except in the heel pocket.  In this area there was a fair bit of room, which could be a deal breaker unless there is a widget that takes up that space.

Otherwise the boot looked and felt really good.  Forward flex was more solid than I expected, and would be better yet with a stiffer tongue.  For a 120 flex, it felt about as stiff as what I would expect it to be -- much more solid than some of the 130 boots that I tried that day (Atomic Tracker, Tecnica Bodacious), but slightly softer than other 130's (Lange RX).  The medial side below the ankle and midfoot seemed especially strong, with a thick wall of plastic there.  Nice, and something which promises good edge control.

Forward flex pattern seemed very even and smooth.  None of the "hitting a wall" feeling like on some 2-piece boots.  This is the characteristic that I really like about the Kryptons -- the flex pattern is so smooth and even.  Only a couple of 2-piece boots that I have tried come close (sp. Head Raptor, Tecnica Inferno, Lange RX).

I didn't really make note of the support or rebound.  The shop guy said that a Booster strap would work well with this boot, so something to keep in mind if you're missing the rebound / return to center that a solid 2-piece gives.  Might be worth an experiment.

Thanks for the feedback.  Glad you're liking your Kryptons.  I could sure see how they would be ideal for a patroller.  So comfortable, no hot spots or weird fit areas. 

Cheers,
Svend