Author Topic: Ain't no school like the old school-What's the story, Alfie?  (Read 713 times)

Liam

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Ain't no school like the old school-What's the story, Alfie?
« on: December 09, 2012, 10:34:40 am »
I remember the first time I made the long slog along the high traverse at ALTA to ski Alf's High Rustler.  Wind swept, rocky, lots of side step climbing...it was really the first time I ever really 'earned a turn.'  And when I stared down that Narrow, Steep Chute, wind blaring, I will admit, I was dead scared.  I hopped, twisted, slid, and fought my way through it (it was fairly early in my ski journey :D  ).---And I remember wondering who first skied that sort of terrain....then someone explained to me who 'Alf' actually was (and that someone was an old guy named Junior Burroughs......true story!)

It's hard to believe powder skiing is something that could be 'invented.'--but, if the concept has any validity at all-Alf Engen and his brothers are the geniuses behind the modern powder skiing movement and Alta was the research laboratory.

Check out this great video below:



It takes a bit to get going and it has powder skiing footage going back to the late 1930's...but the bulk 0f it comes from the late 50's early 60's (all Engen) and you can really see how wonderful the pioneers of the deep really were.  It shows some of the evolution of the style and the later stuff in the video would look good in any era.  We've all seen that 'Killy in the Trees' video and probably liked it as an example of 'graceful straight ski freeskiing'....this is way better.   I ca't imagine getting the uninterrupted inbounds powder runs like this at Alta anymore....wish I had a time machine.

Think about it, a guy and his brothers 'created Alta, and then created the way to ski this very snowy series of ridges, and had it down pat by the mid 1940's.....and the man's signature run, was long, steep, hard to access chute that still ranks as one of the great 'rite of passage' runs today.

enjoy.

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Gary

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Hey Liam....I smiled through the entire film...some great pow shots and to see how much of his body was below snow..very cool.

It's a gift for me to be lucky enough to find snow even close to that yet it's what I desire most in skiing.

The beauty, the grace, the giving up yourself to the snow, the turn, the mountain....finding time to breath.....yeah man....it's a gift!

Thanks for posting that....very much enjoyed!

G

jim-ratliff

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WOW, what great link. Thanks, Liam.
"If you're gonna play the game boy, ya gotta learn to play it right."

bushwacka

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its pretty similar to what we do to this day.

the new equipment just let us surf the crap while still bottom feeding in powder while going faster.

and I am going to keep posting this picture untill I stop reading about how the old school skiers were deeper in powder.


LivingProof

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Liam,

Another great find! The video opens with some skiing from 1946, my birth year (yup, I'm  a certified old guy)

Alta is also the first place that I climbed for turns. In my early days, we would rent Rossignol Haute Route skis, pencil sticks with a very soft tip on powder days. The tips were so soft that the rental policy was - You break 'em, you bought 'em. Never was there during the powder shown in the video, came close once but the upper mountain was closed for avalanche control, and, the Alta lift system was maddeningly slow.

I'm certain that Alf got on the lifts far ahead of the typical customer and what we are seeing are first runs, al la Warren Miller, et al, show today. I salute what those guys did.

its pretty similar to what we do to this day.

the new equipment just let us surf the crap while still bottom feeding in powder while going faster.

and I am going to keep posting this picture until I stop reading about how the old school skiers were deeper in powder.

Josh,
As you skied Little Cottenwood Canyon for a few years, you must have encountered similar snow. My guess is the ability to get really deep into powder has to be a function of both the snow depth and very dry snow. I would think that even with modern equipment, there should be days when the magic combination exists, permitting the effects shown in the photo you shared, which is visually stunning.

But, I would have to think that a 230 lb. Alf Engen, on skinny skis, has to get down lower into very light powder that you on modern skis.

HighAngles

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Love the video.  It really amazes me that these guys were going after it so long ago on the gear they had at the time.  They were definitely "tough SoBs".  ;)

"Tuning" your powder ski selection to the mountain and the snow type is something that I've been playing with over the past few seasons.  I bought a big fat wide powder ski after I got tired of being left in the dust by friends on wider skis when we were skiing Vail.  Vail is mostly low angle slopes and on a deep day you need a ski that has more float to keep you moving.  However, I hate my widest skis at Loveland because they plane up so easily that I don't get to ski "in the snow" nearly as much.  So I bought narrower powder skis that still have the same shape and rocker profile, but should let me stay down in the snow more even at speed.

I was watching an old ski movie this weekend from 1994 (P-tex, Lies, and Duct tape) and was thinking how different that skiing would have looked if they had today's gear.  There were many points where the skiers were really struggling with skiing deep snow on the skinny skis.  You NEVER see that any longer in the current movies over the past 5 years.  It seems that the new fatter skis designs have tamed the mountain to the point of making it almost too easy.  Yeah, today's pros are now pushing the envelope even further, but they wouldn't be able to do that if it weren't for the advances in the gear.  So much for the idea that you "can't buy a turn".  ;D

Liam

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Couple things,

Hey 'Bush, I never said a word about people getting deeper in the snow then or now.  What I really like about that video is how similar, at the high end, powder technique is across time and space.

What I do know (and can observe) is this:  Speed is no longer a critical factor in successful powder skiing.  Alf is absolutely trucking in the deep pow, and of course he had to or his skis wouldn't plane up high enough to turn.  One nice thing about modern pow gear, is that allows us to ski slower in powder...a really nice thing for tight trees.  I often hear how big skis promote 'too fast skiing', and maybe in some cases that is true, but they also allow for slower skiing as well (in fact, the video mentions the problem with high speed powder skiing and trees...).  Big skis certainly reduce drag in deep snow and allow for higher critical speeds than in the past...but they also allow skiers to ski pow slower and more deliberately than in the past as well-it's the give and take of float.

By the way, Alf was also one of the first people to strongly advocate using different skis for skiing powder...he was pretty forward thinking and he probably would have loved some of the modern designs (look at the step up in  the video between the early 1946 segment and the later segments).

Svend

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It really amazes me that these guys were going after it so long ago on the gear they had at the time.  They were definitely "tough SoBs".  ;)

My Father tells me stories of skiing in Europe in the late forties and fifties.  He grew up in Germany, and for a winter getaway would go backcountry skiing in the Alps and Carpathian Mountains in Czechoslovakia....a lone.  Leather boots, wooden skis with cable bindings, backpack with lunch, woolen clothes....you get the picture.  He would make his way across the high alpine meadows, hiking up and telemarking down the slopes from village to village.  Staying in small inns along the way, he'd take a week or more for such a trip, and then catch a train home.  Tough S-O-B is an apt description.  When I talk to him about modern resort skiing, he just shakes his head and gives me a whimsical knowing grin.  Although he does perk up when I mention the resurgence of backcountry skiing in North America. 

Maybe one day I will retrace his footsteps.  Sounds completely fantastic.

Liam -- great video.  Loved it!

« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 10:04:51 am by Svend »

midwif

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Liam
What a fun video.
STrong, powerful, athletic.
And certainly a far cry, technique wise, from modern day moves!
Turning straight skis in deep snow seems to have taken plenty of work.

Lynn
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