PSIA Contemporary Ski Instruction

[HighAngles]

I have a "thirst" for knowledge about skiing and skiing instruction.  Currently I'm openly drinking from the PMTS fountain (and the Kool-aid is good), but I'm always curious about where ski instruction is going and especially interested in the larger players (PSIA, CSIA) and some of the other smaller players (JC, etc.).

I have quite a few friends and acquaintances in the PSIA.  So the discussions we have regarding what PMTS teaches versus what they're teaching are always interesting.  Rarely is anyone "put off" by having an open discussion about ski instruction.  I brought up the "Contemporary Skiing" topic because of all the places on the Internet I knew that this was the one place where it could be discussed alongside PMTS views.  Hopefully we can all place some value on what we have here at the Peak Skier Zone.

BTW - I'm in for another $100 toward the get Bush to Colorado fund.

[HighAngles]

I'm anteing $50 up front and another $50 if both are alive at 4pm.

Thanks for the chuckle!

My first PMTS lesson was a small group lesson with Harald.  In a full day I received enough of a "taste" to be hooked and realize that I had found the path I was looking for to take my skiing to the next level.  So I think that getting Bush in for a day with Harald would work.  Note that Harald's rate is about $1000/day and he's typically booked up already, but there may still be a slot open in his schedule.  I'm willing to add myself in for a small group lesson with Harald if we can get at least 4 people interested (Bush would be one of the group).

[jim-ratliff]

I still welcome Epic's contribution on this forum.

I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg, but I sincerely hope that on this forum we can continue open discourse without rancor.  I find it really sad that every ski forum I am aware of has devolved into into one camp or the other.
How sad to only talk with people that already have the same views as you.
I blame SCSA, since he was the first overly zealous PMTS proponent that I became aware of (and was early in the long list of PMTS proponents to get banned from EpicSki.

[jbotti]

Jim, I agree with you but in the words of Roger Clemens, Epic seems to be "misremembering" even his own postings.

Todays quotes: "Just about every part of this quote is wrong" "As for discouraging mentioning PMTS, who would even do that? There is no thought police or union boss that follows us around to see what we are talking about."

Quote from 4/5/11 on Epicski Forums:
"
You could try, but I think it would be pretty hard. "Dear EpicSki, I went to a Blue Level Banned-System Camp this weekend. He Who Shall Not Be Named met us A-Basin where we worked on the Phantom-Move, etc.." would not fly. If you really tried, I'm sure you could make it work, but why would you want to? There is already an entire forum dedicated to discussion of PMTS Camps where they would love to discuss it with you. What do you suppose would happen if somebody who just got back from ESA posted a glowing TR of it on the PMTS forum"

So what's wrong with this picture?

I am the first for respect but you can't insult my intelligence either.

[midwif]

Brandy anyone?

[jbotti]

I really meant what I said when I agreed with Jim. I, like Jim, still welcome Epic's contribution to this forum. I will even eliminate the the "still".

I want nothing to do with the religious war.

I also reserve the right to say "sounds a little fishy" if it does.

[Liam]

I still welcome Epic's contribution on this forum.

I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg, but I sincerely hope that on this forum we can continue open discourse without rancor.  I find it really sad that every ski forum I am aware of has devolved into into one camp or the other.
How sad to only talk with people that already have the same views as you.
I blame SCSA, since he was the first overly zealous PMTS proponent that I became aware of (and was early in the long list of PMTS proponents to get banned from EpicSki.

The Irony of that is late last season Heyoka/ SCSA went on PMTS forum, posted up a vid for MA and then started slinging sh#t at everyone there (including Harald...in fact, he did something similar here and got his thread pulled correct) and I believe he got the permanent boot over there.  Someone said that he started the PMTS forum in the first place...strange circle, huh?

I actually hate the whole banning thing (except for spammers) it tends to deaden the forums (as has definitely been the case with Epic and PMTS forums) and I am happy that fairly heated discussions and their proponents are allowed to exist on this forum.

[epic]

Guys EpicSki and PMTS are not the same thing! I'm not rewriting history. Nobody in PSIA has ever told me not to talk about PMTS. The thing from Central is the first I have ever heard of it, and I don't like it.

[bushwacka]

I still welcome Epic's contribution on this forum.

I don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg, but I sincerely hope that on this forum we can continue open discourse without rancor.  I find it really sad that every ski forum I am aware of has devolved into into one camp or the other.
How sad to only talk with people that already have the same views as you.
I blame SCSA, since he was the first overly zealous PMTS proponent that I became aware of (and was early in the long list of PMTS proponents to get banned from EpicSki.

just chiming in this very important thread.

that guy mentioned above is literally the worst interaction I have ever had with anyone from any internet forum ever and it was in person.

Loveland early season probably 6 years ago I was breaking in new boots that started to hurt my foot so bad I used a bench on top to take them off quickly. Scussy comes along and freaking takes my boot and skis off with it. Right..... 

alright everyone can go back to bickering and thank you for letting me con you into paying for a trip to colorado keep up the donations .

BTW noone in PSIA has told me to not talk about PMTS either. but I have only been intermountain or eastern and never central.

this is like arguing religion as Jbotti put it. In fact its worse.

[jim-ratliff]

...in fact, he did something similar here and got his thread pulled correct) and I believe he got the permanent boot over there.  Someone said that he started the PMTS forum in the first place...strange circle, huh?

Sort of correct.  I mod'ed his post, he accused me of communism and protecting PMTS/Harald and chose not to continue posting. I don't remember if I deleted the remainder of his posts or not.
The original RealSkiers forum was started and managed by Peter Keelty as adjunct to his RealSkiers pay site; but SCSA was the first member. (I was actually the second to join that original.)  That forum crashed, at which point the hosting service realized their backups were no good, so everything started over). On this migrated iteration, I believe that JBotti rejoined first and, therefore, is the senior member.

I actually hate the whole banning thing (except for spammers) it tends to deaden the forums (as has definitely been the case with Epic and PMTS forums) and I am happy that fairly heated discussions and their proponents are allowed to exist on this forum.

I agree (except for concern about how heated things seem to get). I would hope it remains that all are "encouraged" to contribute on this forum.
The less moderation, the better.     It's sometimes hard to keep midwif's finger off that trigger though.   

[midwif]

No brandy?

20 year old Porto?

And my trigger finger is just fine, thank you.
Calmed the over- moderation DT's with some excellent spanish wine last night.

[jbotti]

I actually hate the whole banning thing (except for spammers) it tends to deaden the forums (as has definitely been the case with Epic and PMTS forums) and I am happy that fairly heated discussions and their proponents are allowed to exist on this forum.

Many people that have been banned at one time from the PMTS forum have come back and become huge contributers. I'm not a huge fan of the banning either except there have been times when someone's agenda has been to disrupt rather than to contribute and learn and then it not only makes sense but is necessary. Harald used to have an itchy trigger finger. We see very little of that the past couple of years.

[dan.boisvert]

Max, we all know EpicSki as an organization has an agenda, but I don't think it's fair to hold epic (the person) responsible for the sins of the organization, even if he has to enforce their rules when he's wearing his moderator hat over there.  He generally seems pretty reasonable, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt on this as an individual?

I think the earlier mixup where he asked who would even do that was due to pronoun confusion.  I think he was referring to "who at PSIA would even have a position where that would be included in their job description?", where you guys read it as "who on earth would ever try to discourage PMTS?".  If you go back and re-read it as the former, it seems a lot less like somebody trying to rewrite history, and a lot more like what I think he intended.

I'm going to go hide in the corner and drink now..

[jim-ratliff]

.....  Harald used to have an itchy trigger finger. We see very little of that the past couple of years.

Interestingly, I had been crediting Max with the calmer tone on the PMTS forum thinking that he had assumed administrator/moderator responsibilities to free up some of Harald's time.
After my post last night, Max PM'd me to say that my assumption wasn't correct.
Wherever the credit goes, it has been less contentious there.


And while there have certainly been others, my opinion is that Helluva on Epic and patprof (who was in my group at my first PMTS camp) on PMTS were two of the more egregious bannings (or maybe censoring is more descriptive in Helluva's case).
Lynn and I were quite enamored of the "Banned of Brothers" name for this forum, but High Angles' suggestion of the current name was better.

[jim-ratliff]

Max, we all know EpicSki as an organization has an agenda, but I don't think it's fair to hold epic (the person) responsible for the sins of the organization, even if he has to enforce their rules when he's wearing his moderator hat over there.  He generally seems pretty reasonable, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt on this as an individual?

I think the earlier mixup where he asked who would even do that was due to pronoun confusion.  I think he was referring to "who at PSIA would even have a position where that would be included in their job description?", where you guys read it as "who on earth would ever try to discourage PMTS?".  If you go back and re-read it as the former, it seems a lot less like somebody trying to rewrite history, and a lot more like what I think he intended.

I'm going to go hide in the corner and drink now..

Well said, Dan.